The Surprising Benefits Of CO₂ And A Warmer Planet With Gregory Wrightstone

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Gregory Wrightstone, geologist, author, and executive director of the CO2 Coalition, challenges the prevailing narrative that rising carbon dioxide and a warming planet spell disaster. Drawing on geology, climate history, and agricultural data, Gregory makes the case that modest warming and increased CO2 are benefiting both humanity and the natural world.

He explains how longer growing seasons and higher CO2 levels can increase agricultural productivity and help plants withstand drought, and takes us back through history to explore the connection between warm periods, abundant food, and flourishing civilizations. He also weighs in on sea-level rise, retreating glaciers, polar bears and species extinction, and the environmental costs of wind and solar energy.

Gregory also discusses the effort to overturn the EPA’s CO2 endangerment finding and the CO2 Coalition’s involvement in the resulting legal battle. Finally, he shares how the Coalition is creating free educational materials to help children examine climate claims through science, critical thinking, and the scientific method.

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To learn more about Greg Wrightstone and the CO₂ Coalition, visit co2coalition.org

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Episode Transcript

Within the below transcript the bolded text is Kendall Nelson and the regular text is Gregory Wrightstone.

If you’ve been paying attention to the headlines, you’ve probably heard that rising CO2 levels are driving the planet toward catastrophe. We’re told the Earth is warming at an alarming rate and that our only hope is to rapidly eliminate our dependency on fossil fuels. What if much of what we’ve been told is incomplete or even wrong? What if a modestly warmer planet and higher levels of carbon dioxide are benefiting humanity, agriculture, and the natural world?

This is episode 598, and our guest is Gregory Wrightstone. Gregory is a geologist, a senior fellow of the CO2 Coalition, and the bestselling author of Inconvenient Facts and A Very Convenient Warming. After spending decades as a professional geologist, Greg began examining the underlying climate data for himself. What he found led him to challenge many of the prevailing claims about climate change and dedicate his work to helping the public better understand the role carbon dioxide plays in Earth’s climate and ecosystems.

In this episode, Greg explains why he believes Earth is currently experiencing a period of modest natural warming, why he argues that carbon dioxide has been unfairly portrayed as a pollutant, and how increased CO2 and a longer growing season have contributed to record agricultural productivity around the world. We also discuss what history can teach us about warm and cold periods, and the evidence he believes challenges many popular climate narratives surrounding sea level rise and endangered species.

Also, why he says the real environmental conversation should focus on protecting both human freedom and the natural world. Greg also shares the educational work the CO2 Coalition is doing to help children and families better understand climate science. Before we get into the conversation, I’d like to share some exciting news.

The Weston A. Price Foundation is producing its very first feature-length documentary, The Greatest Gift, and I’m so honored to serve as its director. We’ve already begun production, and now we’re raising the funds needed to bring this important film to audiences around the world. The Greatest Gift is a powerful journey into the forgotten wisdom of Dr. Price. Revealing how the foods that once built vibrant, healthy generations may hold the key to reversing today’s epidemic of chronic disease, infertility, and declining health, and restore hope for generations to come.

This project is being made possible through the generosity of people like you. We’d be so grateful for your support. To learn more or make a tax-deductible donation, visit the website Weston A. Price Foundation. Every contribution, no matter the size, helps move this project forward and brings this important story one step closer to the screen. Thank you for being part of it. Now, let’s welcome Gregory Wrightstone.

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Gregory, welcome to the show.

It’s good to be on with you again here.

It’s lovely to see you. I want to talk to you about the fact that you are a senior fellow at the CO2 Coalition. Your background is in Geology. I’m just curious. How did you get involved in climate change? What was the motivation behind all of the work that you’ve done?

Understanding Long-Term Temperature Trends

It was interesting. I had a career as a professional geologist. I was always interested and had an interest in following along about climate change. I knew as a geologist that some of the things we’re being told about climate change were incorrect. I knew that from my work as a geologist. When I started in 2015, I suspected other things that what we’re being told were wrong. I did a deep dive myself. I didn’t want to trust anybody. I said, “I’m going to go back and look at the base data. I want to do an exploration,” which is what I did. I said, “I’m going to find out for myself by looking at the base data.”

When I did that, frankly, what I found angered me. I found that most of what you’re being told about a climate crisis, existential threat, human-caused, unprecedented, and unusual warming was just false. Again, I was angered. That led to the creation of my first book, Inconvenient Facts. That was a number one bestseller in many categories on Amazon for 5 or 6 years. It was hugely popular. We’ve sold over 120,000 copies to date. That book, Inconvenient Facts, explored that there is no climate crisis and that we should not be living in fear because there is no climate crisis. By the way, fear is a great motivator.

My second book is titled A Very Convenient Warming: How modest warming and more CO2 are benefiting humanity. In this book, we’ve gone a step further. It mirrors the same philosophy that we have with the CO2 Coalition. That is, not only is there not a climate crisis, and there isn’t. Not only that, but almost every metric you look at, Earth’s ecosystems are thriving and prospering, and humanity is benefiting from this modest warming and more CO2.

I always tell people, “Sleep well. There is no climate crisis.” If this were the Christmas season, I would sing you, Hark. “I bring you glad tidings of great joy.” It’s a planet that’s prospering. The human condition is flourishing. We should celebrate the warmth and more CO2. We’ll explore that more fully as we go along here. What are those benefits? There are many.

That’s what I was going to ask you naturally was. You wrote the book A Very Convenient Warming and you are posing that warming is beneficial for the planet and for mankind. Can you give us some examples of what makes warming better than, say cooling?

Let’s step back one moment. I’m often called a climate change denier. That’s not true. I’m a Scientist. I’m not denying the climate. What would be unusual is if the climate’s not changing. We are in a warming trend. We just are, but it’s important to note that the warming trend started more than 300 years ago. It started with very low CO2 carbon dioxide levels.

We’re being told that CO2, or carbon dioxide, from our emissions, is what’s driving the temperature change. Yet the first 200 years of that temperature increase had to be entirely naturally driven. We didn’t start adding a lot of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere until the mid-20th century. It was in that post-World War II economic boom when we started adding CO2. If we’re going to see CO2-driven warming, it should be somewhere in that mid-20th century when we started adding a lot.

Two-thirds or more of the warming trend all occurred before we started adding a lot of CO2 to the atmosphere. That’s an important point when we talk about the benefits of warming. The most important aspect that’s easiest to understand is the benefits to agricultural productivity. What we see in the North American in the United States, the contiguous United States, growing season has lengthened by nearly two weeks. In the Western US, I finished up a report on Montana, and now I’m working on one in Colorado.

It’s three weeks in the Western United States, a lengthened growing season. That’s hugely beneficial for agriculture. Farmers love the longer growing season. If you’re in Michigan, New York, Pennsylvania, you’re growing. If you have an apple orchard or a pear orchard, what do you fear the worst? What will ruin your year? It’s a late spring killing frost. What we see here with warming, lengthening growing season, those late spring killing frosts occur less often. We also get more harvest. We get more plantings in.

You can plant a little bit earlier in the spring because of the warmth. That’s the easiest thing. When we talk about the benefits of warming, is that increase in the growing season? What we also see, the warming that we’re seeing is not from maximum high temperatures that we usually see in the afternoon. The minimum temperatures usually occur in the wee hours of the morning, like 3:00 AM, 4:00 AM or 5:00 AM before the sun comes up. That’s where we’re seeing the warming is not being driven by increases in maximum temperature, but rather the minimum temperature is elevated. That drives the average daily temperature up.

Historical data shows species extinctions peaked in the late 1800s and have declined significantly since then. You don’t need to fear.

That’s good. Again, if you’re in the Northern reaches of the United States or in Canada, you would appreciate a bit of warming. That’s why I moved here from Pennsylvania to Florida. I like it warm and most people do. We’re being overwhelmed. Florida, Texas, and the Southern reaches of the United States, we’re seeing a huge influx of people moving here because it’s a lot warmer. For example, I was in London during their deadly heat wave. People were freaking out about it. It was 93 degrees for crying out loud.

Again, here in Florida, we call that nice and warm. They’re calling it a deadly heat wave. I wore this jacket. People are going, my God, you’re wearing a sports coat. I’m used to it. These people don’t have air conditioning. Again, I digress, but that’s part of the benefits of warming. The most clear benefit we see of climate change is agricultural productivity. We talked about length and growing season. That’s turbocharged by increasing carbon dioxide levels.

If you think back to middle school, you probably put a bean in a little cup and you set it on the windowsill. You learned about photosynthesis and you learned that plants need water, sunlight, and carbon dioxide. The more carbon dioxide, the better. We’re seeing what’s called the greening of the Earth. Huge productivity. Vegetation is exploding. Forests are increasing and expanding. Deserts are shrinking.

Agricultural productivity is breaking records year after year. It’s this combination of warming and more CO2. There’s more nitrous oxide. Nitrogen available to the plants from our emissions. We also have the nitrogen fertilizer that’s hugely important for agricultural productivity. That nitrogen fertilizer is generated and made from fossil fuels. Mainly natural gas. We have this fossil fuel-fueled nitrogen fertilizer. If you could see some of the charts, I’ve got some in my book comparing crops side by side that were fertilized with nitrogen and the other side wasn’t. It has stark benefits. CO2 is driving.

Enhancing Plant Water Efficiency

It’s turbocharging crop productivity. Again, in my book, A Very Convenient Warming, I take a look at the top eight crops in the world in terms of productivity. We see that they’re breaking records year after year and we see that increasing. It’s not just the cold countries that are benefiting. It’s a hot country. India is a great example of them also breaking records year after year because of increased CO2. Increased CO2 also has the side benefit of making crops and plants better able to resist drought.

You’ll find this interesting. Once you hear, you’ll understand why. With increasing carbon dioxide, the transpiration process, in other words, the breathing in and out. That’s called transpiration. They’re bringing in CO2 mostly during the day. In the evenings, they’re expelling oxygen. Along with that air that’s going out in the oxygen, there’s also water vapor within the plant. That transpiration of water vapor and water from the plant is the second greatest moisture loss that the plants have.

The first is evaporation but that’s second because there’s more CO2. They’re not transpiring or breathing, if you will, as much. They can conserve water. They’re better able to resist drought. That’s part of the reason we see that parts of the deserts are shrinking because plants now, with more CO2, are able to survive in an arid environment. Again, we talk about India and crop productivity. India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh were plagued for centuries, probably millennia, with systematic famines that just killed hundreds of thousands of people. We’ve not seen that, have we?

It’s been since the agricultural revolution in the mid-20th century. The advent of nitrogen fertilizer had a lot to do with it. Again, more CO2 is driving this. Famines. We will probably always be plagued with famines, but it’s greatly alleviated now because of the CO2 increase and our better farming practices and whatnot. I’ve got a chart in my book also. Famine-related deaths have just plummeted since the early 1900s. That’s a really good thing. Thank you, CO2.

Take us back in history a little bit. You’re saying that it’s better to have a warmer planet than a cold planet. I’m thinking of the Dark Ages or the Roman Empire. They were thriving at one point and then they collapsed. Did that have anything to do with the warming and cooling of the Earth?

Learning From Historical Warm Periods

Absolutely. That’s one of my favorite topics to talk about. It’s this strong relationship between temperature and humanity. If we look back to the first great civilizations that rose up, it was during what was called the Minoan Warm Period. It was also known as the Bronze Age. We had the Hittites, the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Harappan Empire, which was in the Indus River Valley, and the ancient Egypt civilizations. They thrived and prospered. It was much warmer than it is.

During that period, they were able to grow a crop called Millet in Scandinavia, which could only be grown in tropical and subtropical climates. Using these historical records, we can say, “It had to have been a lot warmer there. They’re growing millet in what’s today Sweden and Norway.” What we had was food that was bountiful. Great empires arose and civilizations then started getting cold quickly. It led to what was called the late Bronze Age Collapse.

In as short a period as maybe 100 years, all of those empires and civilizations collapsed with the exception of the Egyptians who barely survived by the skin of their teeth. If you were Empress Kendall during the Minoan War period, and you’d make a great empress, by the way. If you were Empress Kendall in the warm period, your subjects loved you because you could feed them and provide for them. They were happy.

If you were Empress Kendall going into the cold during that period, they were coming after you with pitchforks and you probably wouldn’t survive very long because what we saw associated with this cooling was crop failure, famine, pestilence, and mass depopulation. It was horrific times, and we see that repeated time and time again. That led to what was called the Greek Dark Ages. A period of maybe 500 or 600 years where it was called the Dark Ages because civilizations went silent. There’s not much written about it. We don’t know as much about it as some of the other periods.

It didn’t start getting better until the next warm period, which was the Roman Empire. The Roman warm period during the time of Christ. Again, the food was bountiful. Egypt was the breadbasket for the Roman army at that time in North Africa and Egypt. Again, things were good. Until it started getting cold again, which led to the Dark Ages. A lot of things in the Dark Ages were associated with crop failure, famine, pestilence, and mass depopulation. As much as perhaps 50% of Iceland perished. Close to 50% of most of the world’s population perished during that time.

There were a lot of reasons. We had the Black Death, the plague. Again, those were accentuated because people were living in the cold, huddled inside with their animals, fleas. Since it was cold, they were inside. As we learned during COVID, we learned that during the wintertime, that’s the flu season, isn’t it? That’s for a reason. Some of these epidemics thrive in the cold. Again, it didn’t start getting better until the High Middle Ages or the medieval warm period, which was hugely beneficial to the great.

They call it the High Middle Ages because life was good, great empires and kingdoms arose. It started getting cold leading into the Little Ice Age, which was horrific. It was bad. Think of the time of George Washington at Valley Forge. That was in the depths of what was called the Little Ice Age. There was a period of time there with a several-year period called the Maunder Minimum that was cold. Life was not pleasant, but then it started warming up, and we’re experiencing that continued warming.

I say welcome the warmth and fear the cold. Many of these people, the alarmists that we talk about, like Greta Thunberg, John Kerry, Michael Mann, Al Gore, and we’ve got a whole laundry list of these people. They would call me a science denier. I would call them history deniers because what they’re doing is denying what history tells us. History clearly says we should welcome the warmth and fear the cold. That’s what history tells us.

These so-called climate deniers are saying that there’s too much CO2 in the atmosphere and that’s being brought about by fossil fuels, correct? As we humanity are using up too many fossil fuels and all this stuff, we’re causing the problem. That’s the argument. Is there any validity to their argument at all? How do you feel about that?

Let’s unpack that a little bit. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, and it causes some warming, just not very much. The greatest greenhouse gas is water vapor and clouds, but water vapor in all of its forms. That’s about 90% of the warming effect we get from the greenhouse gas effect. CO2 is probably another 9%, then there are these other things like methane and nitrous oxide. All of those bundled together, maybe 1% of the warming. CO2 is just a minor player in greenhouse gas warming.

Again, if we look through time, I know you’ve looked at my book and you’ve seen the records of CO2 historically going back. We’ve shown going back almost 600 billion years of CO2 data showing that CO2 throughout Earth’s history has been over six times what it is. I’m not going to throw a bunch of numbers out at you because nobody likes that but we’re at a little over 400 parts per million. Historically, CO2 has been 2,600 parts per million, six times what it is now. If we look at it, we’re CO2 impoverished. We don’t have too much CO2. We don’t have enough.

The CO2 levels we have is not at 430 parts per million. It’s not optimal for crop growth, for plant growth, for vegetation. If you look at greenhouses, they pump in CO2 to get the levels up three times what it is. They like it around 1,000 or 1,200 parts per million. Even if you doubled that, that would be more beneficial, but there’s a cost-benefit that these greenhouses look at. There’s sweet spots around 1,000 to 12,000 parts per million because if you keep adding CO2, you’re continuing to benefit productivity, but it’s going to cost you money. There’s that cost-benefit they make, it’s around 12,000 parts.

There’s a marijuana growing facility just up the road for me right here. They’ve got huge tanks that are labeled CO2. They’re pumping that CO2. I don’t partake, but it’s a huge facility. They’re putting out a lot of that green stuff. I don’t like it but that’s what they’re doing because it works. It works for everything. It works for tomatoes, potatoes, or whatever it’s you’re growing. Nobody grows potatoes in a greenhouse but they do tomatoes and other crops.

Lengthened growing seasons give farmers better crop yields, protection from late frosts, and stronger agricultural output.

I think you’ll find this funny. We get all these scare stories, don’t we, of, “There’s increased toe fungus. There’s this and that.” One of the things was there’s going to be CO2 and warming is going to lead to an increase in poison ivy. I thought about it. I looked at it and they’re right. Poison ivy will grow faster and bigger because of warming and more CO2. That’s because CO2 is an equal opportunity fertilizer. All of the plant world is going to survive. Even the ones that are competing against poison ivy.

Don’t be scared about the poison ivy. Again, that’s the benefits that we’re seeing from the carbon dioxide it’s providing. I’m a climate geek, so I find it pretty interesting. One of the other things is that we know very clearly what our CO2 emissions are. That’s pretty well documented. We also know what atmospheric CO2 is and only about 50% of our emissions are showing up in the atmosphere. What’s happening to the other 50% of our carbon dioxide? It’s being sequestered.

It’s being taken mainly by vegetation. Increased photosynthesis is removing huge amounts of the CO2 we’re putting into the atmosphere. That’s why they’re thriving. That’s why they’re booming. There’s some CO2, maybe 10% of that’s going into the oceans. The great takeaway is half of our emissions are going into plant life and into the oceans too by algae and phytoplankton and things. The phytoplankton algae also use photosynthesis and use carbon dioxide. These algal blooms that you’ve seen, what happens is the algae bloom and die and fall to the bottom.

It’s removing that CO2 and taking it down into the muds in the oceans. If you look back through time as a geologist, it’s what I studied. We had these organic-rich plants that were then buried and turned into rocks. Those are now the source rocks for all of the oil and gas in the world. Those are the source rocks. These organic-rich muds, shells, mudstones that have been buried and heated up. Once you bury these source rocks, once they get heated to a certain temperature, they first are turned into oil, wet gas, and then deeper and hotter. That eventually turned into dry natural gas, mostly methane.

You just talked about our oceans. How are the oceans doing? Can we also talk about the glaciers that are right at the oceans? I’m curious about the health of both of those.

Let’s talk about sea level rise. Everyone’s heard we’ve got these islands that will be underwater by 2050 or 2060. I’ll give you an example. The Maldives in the Indian Ocean, are the most at-risk islands or island chain in the world, the UN says. That they’ll be underwater in a few decades or by 2050. There are pictures of the Prime Minister of the Maldives standing hip deep in water, and he’s got his hands out because he wants climate reparations.

He wants billions of dollars. I can’t blame him. If I were in charge of the Maldives, I’d have my hand out saying, “Give me billions of dollars.” I’m not going to fault him for that. What we can do is fault the people that are telling us that we need to pay climate reparations. You’ll find the story fascinating. Several years ago, the Maldives were also above sea level. In the last 18,000 years, sea level has risen 400 feet. The question you’re asking, isn’t it, why aren’t the Maldives under 400 feet of water? Good question.

Examining Island Accretion Dynamics

It’s because of a geologic process known as accretion that these islands grow as sea level rises because they’re ringed by corals. Corals grow really fast. They can keep up with the most rapid sea level and they can grow quickly. They’re also degraded by storms, turned into sands. They may account for 80% of the sands around these islands because the parrotfish eat the coral. The polyps within the coral is what they’re after, and they digest that. It comes in one end, and then it goes out the other end as sand.

 

My grandson likes that story because we talk about parrotfish poop and they love that stuff. What this is, we’ve got the sand. During storms, the sand’s washed up onto the shore face and the beaches. Wind distributes it across the island. Critters move it around the island. The island slowly grows. It’s a slow process. Geology is a slow process, but these islands all have grown. Think about this. Does this make sense to you? They’re telling you that the last 18,000 years with 400 feet of sea level rise hasn’t put those islands of the Maldives underwater, but the next three inches is what it will be by 2050.

The last 400 feet didn’t put them on, but the next 3 inches will. It’s ridiculous. Come on. Sea level currently is rising at 7 inches per century. Hundred years from now, your great-great-great-grandchildren, or maybe another great in there, but sea level will be about just over their ankles of additional sea level rise. We can deal with that. The other thing, if you look at it in the Maldives, there were some fourteen different hotel complexes and resorts being built. There were four airports being constructed in the Maldives.

All of these were funded by equity companies and insured by multinational insurance companies who avoid risk like the plague, I might add. Are these insurance companies going to insure millions and millions of dollars of investment? If they’re going to be underwater in 20 or 30 years? There’s no way they’re going to do it. You know that, and I know that. Your viewers know that. You shake your head. Common sense is not ruling our decisions here. It’s hype, hysteria, and fear-mongering. It’s the order of the day.

You talked about glaciers. If you saw my book, you saw a picture of my wife and I on top of Mendenhall Glacier. There’s also another picture of us on a cruise in front of the John Muir Glacier, which is Glacier Bay, Alaska. I’ve got a chart that shows that there was no Glacier Bay in 1700. It was completely full of ice. The glacier had extended right to the ocean and it started retreating. It started retreating in the 1700s.

It was the 1800s when a lot of the retreat of that glacier. Again, long before we started adding CO2 to the atmosphere. They’ll say, “The John Muir glacier is retreating.” It is because it’s warming. The retreat started long before we started adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere. I’ve got a chart of 169 glaciers globally. All of these glaciers all started retreating in the early 1800s. By 1850, they were all in full-on retreat. About the same rate as they are at low CO2 levels.

That was going to be my next question, at what rate are they retreating? I’ve been to Glacier Bay as well, and I’ve watched the glaciers fall right off. Parts of the ice just fall right off into the bay. I’m curious, is there any validity to the fact that it’s speeding up now? I think you just answered it but tell me again. Is there any validity to that?

There is none. You’ll look at the best, most accurate estimates. We know for sure with the glaciers. That’s easily measured. We know that the 169 glacier measurements tell us that but the sea level rise. We’re being told it’s accelerating. Sea level is measured by two things, tide gauges. They’re the longest, most accurate records. That’s the actual measurement, then there are satellites. Satellites are really poor at measuring sea level rise because they’re measuring it, for one thing, in the middle of the oceans. They can’t measure up against the shore because it takes many dozens of square miles for them to do.

Think about that. They’re 100 miles up or whatever. They’re trying to measure things on the order of millimeters of sea level rise. The accuracy is not good enough for us to do that. The orbits of these satellites degrade through time. They have to be replaced with new satellites, which then are calibrated to try and match the last satellite. It’s very hard to do. They don’t do it very well. The tide gauges are the most accurate long-term. We only have satellite data going back to the early 1980s.

We’ve all seen these pictures of the polar bears, and they’re sitting on one little piece of ice out in the bay and it’s heart-wrenching. I read in your book that the polar bear population is expanding. It’s growing. I’m wondering if you could talk about the polar bears, but also species in general. Are we losing species? Are we losing diversity? Are they thriving like the agriculture is thriving?

Reevaluating Historical Extinction Trends

That’s a feel-good story. Again, it’s being fear-mongered. Let’s talk about extinctions and endangered species. There was a UN report that came out. They had a terribly terrifying chart showing accelerating extinctions going. They only had one data point per century, which is important. The way they did it, they played statistical games. I went back and looked at the exact same data. Instead of a century-by-century estimate, I looked at decades. We can see that extinctions peaked mid-to-late 1800s and early 1900s. It’s been a significant decline in extinctions since then.

In fact, this UN report claimed that there were thousands or a million species that were at risk. We see that extinctions have been at historically low levels. We’re back to where they were. The reason they peaked in the 1800s and 1900s where we were introducing non-native species to these islands in the Caribbean and Australia. If you get a Norway rat that’s let loose on an island, they devastate the bird population. That’s why we see that.

The big story, if you look at the actual data, which I capture in my book. It’s this strong decline of endangered species, of extinct species. The one thing that the UN and their report got right, they said the greatest threat to endangered species is loss of habitat. That’s true. It is, but what’s their solution to solving a non-existent climate crisis? Destroy the habitat. Pave over prairies, grasslands. Cut down forests to put up solar. Don’t call them farms. There’s nothing bucolic about a solar industrial complex.

Cover them with solar panels. Cut down mature forests to put up wind turbines that sometimes work. When the wind stops blowing or blows too hard, they have to be shut down. Their solution to this non-existent climate crisis is to destroy the habitat on which these endangered species rely. It angers me that it doesn’t make sense. I’m an environmentalist. I like clean air. I like clean water. I like to preserve. I love animals. I like seeing wildlife. The story there is that we’re doing a really good job protecting our endangered species. It’s something we should be proud of. It shouldn’t be fear-mongered like they’re doing.

History shows humanity prospers during warm climate periods with bountiful food and expanding civilizations.

What you’re saying is that these alternative forms of energy like wind and solar and stuff are problematic because they wreck the environment. Can you tell a story about Greenpeace and what’s happening with the wind turbines that they’re putting out in the ocean?

Again, I was executive director. I was hired in the beginning of 2021. Our chairman at the time was Dr. Patrick Moore. He’s a PhD in Eco-Science. He’s out of Vancouver. He’s Canadian. He hired me at the time he was chairman. His story is quite interesting. He was a co-founder of Greenpeace. He was in the boats. Those boats that were in front of the Japanese fleet where they shot a harpoon over Patrick to hit a whale.

He was at the forefront of this but he was a true environmentalist. He found that Greenpeace lost its way. That they didn’t understand. One of the big things to him that turned him away from Greenpeace was they went on a rampage against chlorine. Not all chemicals are bad. Some chemicals are really good. Chlorine is one of those. There have been more people saved around the world from early deaths by the use of chlorine or water that kills just diseases that run rampant through diseased water and bad water.

Chlorine is probably saved. It might be on the order of billions of people since we introduced it. He said, “These people are nuts.” He’s been talking a lot, in the eastern United States, there have been a number of huge turbines, wind turbine facilities, industrial-scale facilities that were going to be offshore. At the same time that they were doing the surveys and construction, we saw a huge influx of dead whales being washed up on the shore.

Now, there’s no direct linkage between construction and surveying for the wind turbines and the dead whales. These whales also can be injured by the seismic activities. They can swim perhaps hundreds of miles away and then perish after they’ve been damaged. They’re not going to go, “I’m dead.” If these sonar activities confuse them enough damage their sonar receptors their ears, if you will, it’s very bad. Greenpeace stayed silent after they did all the good for the whales in the past. They’ve remained silent on this. He shakes his head about it. They’ve lost their way.

You’re saying that they lost their way, but is there some good news? You told me that in February 2026, the EPA rescinded the CO2 endangerment finding. What was that?

In 2008, the Supreme Court said in the Massachusetts v. EPA ruling that CO2 could be listed as a pollutant. In 2009, the Obama EPA started that process. They said, “CO2 is a pollutant and we’re going to regulate it,” and might have them. This has led to a whole series of laws, regulations imposed by the EPA. Not by the government. Not by our legislatures. The EPA has systematically been removing your viewers’ freedoms one by one.

Under the guise of there’s a climate crisis because we’re adding CO2s. We need to restrict CO2. Using this, they’ve been able to tell you to restrict your freedoms as to what ceiling fan you buy or what dishwasher you can buy. For example, the EPA. You can’t buy a good dishwasher anymore that gets the dishes done in 45 minutes. The new dishwashers are two and a half to four hours in a cycle. Why? It’s because they conserve electricity and water. They call that an efficient dishwasher. My wife would disagree with them. Her definition of an efficient dishwasher is one that gets it done clean in 45 minutes and dry.

The same with low-flow toilets that you have to flush twice. Low-flow showerheads because we need to conserve water. We don’t. Maybe you do in Las Vegas or Phoenix, but I don’t have to do it here in Florida. You don’t have to do it in New York. We’re blessed with lots of water, but it’s a one-size-fits-all. They were going to restrict your freedoms up until Lee Zeldin and the EPA are rolling back on some of these. They wanted us all to drive electric vehicles. No, thank you. I don’t have anything against electric vehicles.

In fact, I own an electric vehicle. It’s sitting in my garage. I’m in Florida. It’s called a golf cart, and it’s an electric vehicle. We shouldn’t be told you have to buy an electric vehicle. You may not buy a gasoline or diesel-powered vehicle. I want that choice. That’s all about our freedom and restricting freedom. In February 2026, Lee Zeldin and the EPA rescinded or repealed this endangerment finding, which was this whole house of cards built on this endangerment finding. The same day, environmental groups sued to appeal the repeal.

In March, we stepped in as the CO2 Coalition and intervened in the matter. We’ve hired a pretty darn expensive law firm out of DC. These were the three lawyers that won the West Virginia VEPA case, monumental case in 2024. They’re rock stars. We brought them on, so we’re intervening. It’s now before the Court of Appeals in DC. They will be hearing it. Eventually, we will be arguing the case before the Supreme Court. That’s what we’re doing at the CO2 Coalition. Fighting for your freedoms, freedoms to choose. Freedom to choose shower heads, dishwashers, what you’re driving, just about everything that they’ve been trying to regulate.

Another thing you’re doing at the CO2 Coalition is educating children. You wrote a couple of books that we talked about, but you also wrote a book called Chloe the Clownfish, and you have a CO2 Learning Center for children. Can you tell us just a tiny bit about that?

I’m so proud of what we’ve been able to do. Our members came to me, it was in 2022, and they were very concerned. They said, “Our grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and children are being indoctrinated into this climate cult. They’re being taught groupthink and consensus science. They’re not being taught the scientific method or critical thinking. We need to do something,” and we have. We’ve initiated. If you go to CO2LearningCenter.com, we’ve published a series of highly wonderfully illustrated science-based comic books, if you will.

It tells the story using science in different themes. One is about recycling and how Mother Nature is the biggest recycler of all. We have one of the gases in the air. I wrote one on Chloe the Clownfish, and that’s my granddaughter. I’m reading to her that you can see. Using one of these books, and it’s a wonderful way to get the message out there. The story that I wrote is about Chloe that lives on the Great Barrier Reef with her parents.

In school, she learned that her home and her family are in great danger from climate change, and she can’t sleep at night. The story, the title is Chloe the Clownfish Sleeps Well. We’re able to use this story to tell the truth about what’s happening on the Great Barrier Reef. To find that the Great Barrier Reef is thriving and prospering. It was in 2024, and had the greatest amount of coral coverage since they started measuring this in the mid-80s.

It’s completely opposite of what we’re being told about great bleaching and dying. Bleaching of the corals does happen occasionally. Different stresses cause them. When they bleach, they don’t die. The color of the reef is from the polyps that have other microorganisms that live in the polyps that give it the color. When they get stressed, they get rid of those and they turn white but they’re not dead. They will come right back but that doesn’t fit the narrative of climate catastrophe.

We’ve hired Dr. Sharon Camp as our Senior Education Advisor. She’s got a PhD in Analytic Chemistry. She was an AP Science teacher and reader. She creates all of our lesson plans. These are thoroughly vetted by me and other scientists in the CO2 Coalition. We provide all of this free of charge. That’s our mission. We’re getting funding from people that love what we’re doing. They’re like, “We love your mission. We want to fund you. Here’s $300. We want you to help fund and get these books and the information out there at schools.” Go to CO2LearningCenter.com, free of charge, books, videos, and lesson plans. You can downloadable lesson plans.

Critical thinking and true scientific methods empower families to evaluate environmental claims with confidence.

We want to make it easy for them. I’ve got four grandchildren who are all homeschooled. Homeschoolers love what we’re able to provide to them. We go to these homeschooling conventions. They look at us and their eyes get wide. They go, “Do you mean they’re free?” I’m like, “They’re free.” They say, “You’re the only one here giving away free information.” I said, “We’re not mercenaries. We’re not out there to make money. We’re out there to provide good information and provide it to the masses.” The homeschooling convention is uplifting to go talk to these parents.

Greg, you’re doing all this wonderful stuff with the coalition and providing materials for children and stuff. You’re also going to be speaking at the Wise Traditions Conference that’s happening in October 2026. I would encourage everybody to come to that and to listen to you talk, be able to meet you in person and ask you all of the questions that I wish I had time to ask you. As a final question, I do want to ask you. It’s something that I pose to all of my guests at the end of the show. If the reader could do just one thing to improve their health, what would you suggest?

I would say move to Florida. I think that would be a good solution. My health has improved here. It helps. I can get swim laps in the afternoon in my electric golf cart to get there. I enjoy the warm weather. Get out of the cold. Cold kills 10 to 20 times as many people as heat. The warm weather is good for you.

That sounds like good advice. We hear a lot of advice to get out in the sunshine. I am glad that you’re in Florida. Gregory, thank you so much for joining us. I hope you have a wonderful day and I hope to see you soon at the conference.

Thank you very much.

—

Our guest was Gregory Wrightstone. To learn more about Greg’s work, visit the CO2 Coalition, where you’ll find many resources exploring climate science and the role of carbon dioxide in our environment. If you’re looking for materials designed specifically for children and families, be sure to visit CO2 Learning Center, where you’ll find free books, lesson plans, and videos intended to encourage scientific curiosity and critical thinking.

Gregory is a geologist, bestselling author of Inconvenient Facts and A Very Convenient Warming, and serves as a senior fellow at the CO2 Coalition. Our conversation is a reminder of the importance of asking questions, examining evidence, and remaining open to thoughtful discussion. Science advances through curiosity, investigation, and the willingness to explore competing ideas.

As Greg encouraged throughout our conversation, taking the time to look at the underlying data for ourselves can lead to a deeper understanding of the world around us. If you’re enjoying the show, we’d be grateful if you’d take a moment to leave a rating or review wherever you tune in. Your feedback helps others discover the podcast and become part of this growing community. Thank you for spending this time with us. Be well, be nourished, and be free.

 

About Gregory Wrightstone

Gregory Wrightstone is a geologist, author, and Executive Director of the CO₂ Coalition. He holds a B.S. in geology from Waynesburg University and an M.S. in geology from West Virginia University and has more than 35 years of experience studying the Earth’s processes. His professional work included early research and exploration of the vast shale gas resources of the eastern United States, and he co-authored a peer-reviewed paper on the Marcellus Shale gas field.

 

Important Links

• Gregory Wrightstone on LinkedIn
• CO2 Coalition
• Inconvenient Facts
• A Very Convenient Warming: How modest warming and more CO2 are benefiting humanity
• Greenpeace
• CO2 Learning Center
• Chloe the Clownfish Sleeps Well
• Nourishing Our Children
• The Greatest Gift
• Optimal Carnivore
• Masa Chips

 

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