Obesity And Hopelessness: A Teen’s Story Of Processed Food Addiction And Its Consequences With Helene Leeds & Penelope Popken

Have you ever felt addicted to ultra-processed foods—like you knew they were bad for you, but you couldn’t stop indulging? This happened to our guest today who at age 15 weighed over 300 lbs. And she didn’t know who she was anymore.

Today, Penelope Popken is 19 and she’s overcome her addictive behavior.

During this revealing interview, mother and daughter discuss what led to Penelope’s struggles with weight, the drugs she took, the (mostly unhelpful) therapists’ recommendations and more. They go over how most weight loss drugs (including Ozempic) and other quick fixes (like gastric bypass surgeries) have dire consequences. And they cover what it took to turn things around for Penelope. By the way, her healing path included not just returning to real nourishing food but addressing dysfunctional family patterns that contributed to unhealthy behavior.

Since both Helene and Penelope have had to overcome their individual struggles with unhealthy eating and obesity, they have started the Step it UP program to help other women in just their position. After failed attempts at diets, injections, and pills, they are on a mission to help everyone learn how to nourish themselves more deeply and to thrive.

Visit Helene and Penelope’s websites: Step it UP and Step It UP Accountability Group

Check out our sponsors: Optimal Carnivore and Alive Waters

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Episode Transcript

Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda Labrada Gore and the regular text is Helene Leeds & Penelope Popken.

An addiction to ultra-processed foods had a teenage girl behaving like a drug addict, hiding food around her house, getting her fix at school, and the neighborhood 7-Eleven, and feeling miserable and lost. She was 15 years old and weighed over 300 pounds. She didn’t know who she was anymore. This is episode 531, and our guests are Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken.

Penelope and Helene are mother and daughter. Together, they have had breakthroughs in healing multi-generational compulsive eating disorders. They both have overcome struggles with obesity and are on a mission to end obesity by resolving the underlying issues that cause weight gain in the first place. They’ve created the Step It UP program that guides you into a new life step by step toward more delicious food, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle.

In this episode, they discuss Penelope’s healing journey and her mom’s as well. Penelope’s was the most dramatic. They talk about what led to Penelope’s struggles with weight, the drugs she took, the mostly unhelpful therapist recommendations, and more. They also go over how most weight loss drugs, including Ozempic, and other quick fixes, like gastric bypass surgeries and so forth, have dire consequences.

They cover what it took for Penelope to turn things around. Her healing path included not just returning to real, nourishing food, but addressing dysfunctional family patterns that were contributing to unhealthy behavior. This is the fourth episode in our Young Adult Series. We are talking with young adults and also discussing topics that are particularly relevant to them.

Before we get into the conversation, I want to invite you to our Wise Traditions Conference this October 2025 in Utah. I am so excited. All you have to do to sign up is go to Wise Traditions and join us. It’s like a family reunion. We eat Wise Traditions-friendly food, as you can imagine. We hear from top speakers like Mark and Sam Bailey, Dr. Tom Cowan, Sally Fallon Morell, and others. Plus, there are fantastic conversations around the table. Even if you didn’t go to a single session, you would get something out of it. Sign up. Go to Wise Traditions. This is the conference that nourishes in every way. I hope to see you there.

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Welcome to the show, Helene and Penelope.

Thank you. We are so happy to be here.

Thank you.

Teenage Weight Struggles To Ultra-Processed Food

I’m happy to have you all. Penelope, you weighed over 300 pounds when you were 15 years old. Take us back to a moment when you were going to go to school. How did it feel as you were waking up that day?

I remember not wanting to wake up that day. I remember feeling like I couldn’t get out of bed because I was so heavy. It felt like a workout to get up. I didn’t want to get up. I wanted to stay in my dark room on my phone, eating the junk food that I loved so much and was so addicted to. I remember that. I remember being embarrassed to put clothes on because I didn’t have any clothes that I liked, and I didn’t like how I looked. I didn’t recognize myself in the mirror anymore. When I would see myself, I was like, “Who is this girl?” I wore big, oversized hoodies. I was ashamed and scared.

You had panic attacks. You couldn’t go to school. I honestly thought you were going to drop out of high school.

I almost wanted to. I almost did. I contemplated a lot. I even contemplated getting emancipated so I didn’t have to go to school anymore.

I remember.

Wise Traditions | Helene Leeds & Penelope Popken | Obesity — Obesity: You go to the food specialists and they tell you, “Don’t talk about it.” Even the doctor is like, “Don’t talk about it. You’re making it worse.” That was the thing that got us wanting to be advocates for this because that wasn’t okay.

How was it that you ended up in that dark spot that’s so heavy, so discouraged, and so embarrassed, Penelope?

The ultra-processed foods at school were the place I got my hit of junk food. It wasn’t at home. My mom’s been healthy my whole life. At the age of four years old, we moved to America from Europe. I was born in Switzerland. I became addicted to ultra-processed foods at my friend’s house and at school. They would serve cheese balls at school. They would serve Oreos, chips, and pizza. I never had that stuff in Europe.

In fact, in Europe, they have eggs in little mailboxes, and we had a little dairy at the bottom of our hill. When we moved to America, I got addicted. I’d have six slices of pizza at age six years old. The parents would call my mom and be like, “Is there something wrong with your daughter? Why is she eating so much food?” I would not eat when I came home, so you were confused about how I was gaining weight.

I was so confused. It’s little by little. It didn’t start out that way. At a certain point, we try, as moms, to be healthy. We give our kids the right things, and then at a certain point, we don’t have full control. By that time, she had gotten into this bad pattern. It’s much worse than the word bad. She was begging her friends. She was borrowing money and was stealing, ultimately. She was acting like an addict.

I was so confused, in denial, and blindsided because I am such a health advocate. Penelope sees me training thousands of health coaches and helping people to reverse their chronic disease. Her whole life, she’s been surrounded by health neurotics and health wacko people. That’s how she chose her autonomy. For the moms out there who are reading, it’s way more dangerous than I realized. I thought a little bit was okay, and it’s not. I had no idea.

I have a bachelor’s and a Master’s in nutrition, but I also got degrees in nutritional psychology to understand these hippocampal pathways and the gut-brain axis. Of all the people that this could have happened to, it couldn’t have happened to my daughter. My mom died of severe obesity. It was on her death certificate. She was only 59. Much of my life has been stolen by obesity with my own chronic eating problems and to Penelope’s, which I thought, for sure, we were going to dodge that bullet. I was so prepared.

Professional Misadvice & Eating Disorders

What’s interesting to me is that you both have used words that are usually related to drug addiction. You said, Penelope, “I got my hit at school. I was addicted.” You were also, Helene, reinforcing that kind of language. When did you realize you were out of control, Penelope?

I probably realized that when we moved to California. I was twelve, and I couldn’t stop eating. I went back. I would steal money from my mom. I would find cash. I would leave school early. I would hide food in my room. I even hid food in the treasure chest in the trash can outside. I would do anything. I would hide food everywhere I could so I could get it.

I wouldn’t eat in front of my mom anymore. I stopped eating with my mom. I stopped eating meals with her and ate everything in my room. We had a 7-Eleven at the bottom of our hill. I would walk down to that 7-Eleven and get all my junk food. I would either throw away the trash in the trash can there, so it wouldn’t be at the house. I had DoorDash on speed dial when she left the house. It would come right when she left. I hacked every system so I could get my hit of junk food.

Helene, no wonder you were confused because your daughter was hiding the evidence.

Until I got credit card bills, and I was like, “Why is there $600 on DoorDash? What’s going on here? Where’s all the cash?” If anyone has ever dealt with an addict, they know that it’s challenging, and there’s only so much you can do. I know that we’re not an N of one. There are millions of moms who have obese children who themselves have dysregulated eating patterns. This has to end. It has to stop.

I had the means to help her. She was in therapy. We had the right food and all the things. It wasn’t enough because this addiction piece was so strong. It’s interesting because you go to the food specialists and they tell you, “Don’t talk about it.” Even the doctor is like, “Don’t talk about it. You’re making it worse.” That was the thing that got us wanting to be advocates for this because that wasn’t okay.

They were ill-equipped to give her the solutions because they didn’t have the knowledge that the Weston A. Price Foundation is disseminating. They didn’t have the knowledge of healing traditions. They didn’t understand that the junk food at the therapy office was part of the problem. That was one of the places she would load up, I came to find out.

Food could heal, food could harm, and food is a celebration.

On Wednesdays, we had group therapy, and they would have junk food there. On Mondays, in regular therapy, the therapist would say, “Penelope, it’s fine. Eat junk food. Eat Cheerios. Eat Oreos. All food is good food, Penelope. There’s no such thing as bad food.” I tried to talk to her like, “Do I have an eating problem? I’m eating all the time. I look different, and I don’t recognize myself.” She’s like, “No, Penelope, you’re fine. You’re okay. You’re healthy. Everything’s fine. There’s no such thing as bad food.” She kept reinstilling that in my mind to the point where I believed her. I would fight my mom and be like, “Mom, all food is good food.” She’d look at me like, “What are you talking about?”

The professionals were giving you the opposite of what you needed, maybe because they also didn’t have an understanding of nutrient-dense foods. Let’s back up for a second. Penelope, you’ve been very vulnerable and forthcoming about your own struggles. You hinted, Helene, that you had your own. What did your disordered eating look like?

I grew up in a disordered eating household. My mom was in Weight Watchers. She was losing and gaining 100 pounds at a time. She was in Overeaters Anonymous, so the twelve-step program was on our kitchen table. I grew up with a backdrop of this in my life. We were going to meetings. At that time, you went to three meetings a week, and abstinence was from flour and sugar.

I was also in a wheelchair when I was seven. I had this rare bone infection called osteomyelitis that they thought was leukemia. It took them a long time to find it. I had a lot of illnesses in my childhood that made me come to certain realizations about how food could heal, how food could harm, and how food was a celebration. I had this deep interest in learning about food as medicine because I was one of the original plus-size models with Ford in the ‘90s. I got spotted when I was 14 or 15, but I was still plus-size. I was always pudgy. My nickname was Fatso. I was the only third-grader who was 100 pounds.

I was always overweight. It wasn’t until I had you that I started to trim down. It wasn’t like I was morbidly obese, but I always was carrying the extra 30 or 40 pounds. It led me on this journey to learn more through my skin. I had horrific acne. Being a model at that time at the level with Ford models in New York City and traveling around the world, it was challenging to continue to work. That’s where I went to Germany, and doctors said, “You need to clean your blood.” I thought, “What does that mean?” I didn’t understand at the time. I was still in the Western mindset that doctors know best.

I then started to study, and I haven’t stopped. It’s been over 30 years. I’ve started to understand how to reverse chronic disease and have gotten involved in miraculous transformations of diabetes reversal, cancer reversal, cardiovascular disease reversal, and cognitive decline reversal. It has blown my mind. I’ve witnessed so many miracles that I can’t even count anymore. It’s so clear. The evidence is embarrassingly simple. You have to learn how to strategically use what I call the natural kingdom to heal the body from the inside out.

Awakening & Turning Point: Self-Reflection & Change

Going back to Penelope’s story, you said they were telling both of you, “Don’t talk about it.” They were telling you that all food is good food. Your mom also didn’t understand what was going on. When did the light bulb go off for you about this natural kingdom stuff that your mom’s talking about, Penelope?

This happened for me when COVID hit and I had to see myself in the mirror every day. I was stuck with myself. I was having to look at myself every day and be with myself only all day, because we were in lockdown. One day, I look in the mirror and say, “I don’t know who I am anymore. I don’t recognize myself. I don’t like how I feel.”

What’s interesting, Hilda, is that I had body positivity on my phone telling me that it was beautiful to be obese, and friends, doctors, and therapists telling me that it was healthy and beautiful. I didn’t understand that I had a problem because so many people and so much social media were telling me that it was okay, validating my feelings, and telling me that processed food was good food.

I had to come to terms with, “I know I’m unhealthy. I know I’m ugly. I don’t recognize myself. I am overweight. I am so overweight that I can’t even walk up the steps anymore. I’ve got anxiety, depression, and panic attacks every day. I can’t function anymore. I’m sleeping until 12:00 PM. I’m going to bed at 12:00 AM.” I was self-harming. There were points in my life and time when I didn’t want to live anymore. I considered doing bad things because I didn’t want to be here anymore, because I was so addicted to food. That was my outlet.

That was when I realized. It was that day I looked in the mirror. I was like, “I’m going to work out every day. I’m going to make my favorite junk food at home using whole ingredients,” which were 2 double cheeseburgers and 2 milkshakes. I made it at home. I started using Greek yogurt for my milkshakes, and I started using lettuce buns. That’s why we call it Step it UP because we step up one thing at a time, like walking more, moving more, and drinking more water. That’s how I got the weight off naturally with no loose skin.

What’s interesting is that her supply chain was cut off. She couldn’t go to McDonald’s. She couldn’t go to 7-Eleven. She couldn’t go to school.

I couldn’t go to my friends’ houses. When my friends were feeding me junk food and eating a bunch of junk food, I couldn’t do that with them anymore. That wasn’t bonding.

You have to learn how to strategically use the natural kingdom to heal the body from the inside out.

You could have walked down the hill to 7-Eleven or kept up with a DoorDash, but everything changed. I imagine your mom was home more. Helene, did you two talk about it?

It was like a come-to-Jesus moment. There’s a certain point where your kid is addicted and they’re suicidal, and nothing’s working. It doesn’t matter how hard you try. You come to your knees and you’relike, “What?” It’s my responsibility. I’m enabling her, clearly. Yet, it was so infuriating, frustrating, paralyzing, and overwhelming. It was a real come-to-Jesus moment where you’re like, “What do I do, God?” It was instantaneous. I fell to my knees.

There were moments where I would fight with her where I would be like, “Open the curtains and get out of bed,” and she’d be slamming the door in my face. I’m like, “Something’s going to break here. I’m going to lose a nose or I’m going to break a finger, but I’m saying goodnight or whatever it is.” She opened the door, walked out, sat down at the table, and was like, “Mom, I want to change.”

Our first breakthrough was sitting at the table, having a meal together, and us working through, “You’re judging me on how much ketchup I’m using,” or whatever it was. We had to work through all of these levels of resistance and confrontation. I do believe our children are gaining autonomy in the things that we’re attached to, so we have to check in on that. I do believe our children are representations of our unexpressed subconscious patterns that need to be looked at and brought to light. This happened to be an intense, deep, dark one. Luckily, I didn’t lose her.

For all the moms out there who are struggling with something similar, it’s not the thing you want to talk about with your friends. I get it. There isn’t a lot of help out there. It’s something that we need to come together. We shouldn’t be wearing the Scarlet Letter. We need to be joining forces and making healthy food taste delicious. Penelope said, “Mom, if I knew it would taste this good, I would’ve started a long time ago.”

That’s key. People who gain weight tend to love food. Why not give them the food that’s going to nourish them and not leave them feeling starving all the time? When we’re hearing this conversation about Ozempic and other weight loss medications, it’s terrifying because we don’t know the full story. To even think or concede that that could be the first line of defense is unacceptable.

Connecting With Nature, Local Food, And Making Food At Home

I want to talk about Ozempic, but I have one more question. Could you tell, Penelope, that junk food, apart from the weight issue, was unsatisfying?

Yeah, because I always wanted more of it. It didn’t matter how much I ate. It didn’t matter how many cheeseburgers, how many French fries, how many milkshakes, or how much ice cream. I always wanted more. I’d eat a whole loaf of bread and still be hungry, but I wasn’t actually hungry. My cells were starved of those nutrients that you find in whole foods that I was not eating. That’s why I was so hungry, but I didn’t know at the time. They didn’t teach us in therapy or in school. The doctors weren’t talking about it. In fact, the doctor told me, “Penelope, you should start eating some more bread.” Looking back at that, why would you tell a 320-pound girl to eat more bread? I don’t get it.

There’s a body of research that says that deprivation causes binge-purge eating problems. The highest-level eating disorder clinics in this country will promote that body of research. There’s another body of research that says that if you eat foods that have highly palatable foods, which are high in fat, salt, and carbohydrates, that is the combination that will cause the bliss point in the brain that shifts it into the same kind of addiction of cocaine, heroin, other drugs, and alcohol. These two bodies of research exist. For me, why not set yourself up for success and eliminate the chemicals, like the flour, sugar, herbicides, pesticides, fungicides, uniquely modified foods, and so on and so forth?

Debunking Quick Fixes: Ozempic & Bariatric Surgery Concerns

What you’re saying is music to my ears. I’m all about the Wise Traditions diet here. We are all here at the Weston A. Price Foundation. We know how nourishing real food is, and it is amazingly tasty. Given this and the fact that you shed the pounds, Penelope, eating real food, why do you think Ozempic is so promoted? Did anyone ever wish that on you or mention that to you?

Thank goodness, when I was trying to lose weight, Ozempic wasn’t approved for children, because now, they let twelve-year-olds take Ozempic. I’m glad that I wasn’t on Ozempic because I did try other things like it, like HCG injections. I was so desperate at one point that I tried that, and it made me gain weight. I know there are people reading who may be anxious or depressed or wanting to do the drug because it seems easier or it seems like the solution. I say it’s like putting a Band-Aid on a bullet hole because it doesn’t solve the root issues.

I have learned so much about myself through natural weight loss and through using Whole Foods. Ozempic will never teach you that. It starves the body. It doesn’t make you burn fat faster or become more energized. If you see the people, they’re losing bone density. They’re losing their vision. Some of them are infertile. There are a lot of things we don’t even know.

They have suicidal ideations and thyroid cancer.

The babies that are made from humans who’ve been on Ozempic, we have no idea what the long-term implications will be.

People are losing their hair. It’s not good for longevity. It’s starvation. It’s slowing gut motility. This is the thing. We don’t know.

The black box warning label says thyroid C cell tumors.

The gut motility and the permanent changes in the gut microbiome are the ones that are most concerning to me. When you slow down digestion or intentionally impair your digestion, something that I’ve spent the majority of my life repairing from the chronic use of antibiotics my entire childhood, you don’t want to mess with that. In our program and following the Weston A. Price methodology, you will lose weight. For us, it’s 8 to 10 pounds a month, and that’s great. You can easily do that with whole, nourishing foods that will give you longevity and not put you on a drug that costs over $1,000 a month for the rest of your life.

You get zero side effects from eating whole foods and moving daily.

You get happy. You get energized.

You’ll have no loose skin. If you want to prevent loose skin, you don’t want to have an Ozempic phase.

You’ll age well.

There are lots of side effects.

They are good side effects, though.

Emotional & Psychological Roots Of Eating Habits

You never hear about these from prescription drugs. Helene, I want to go back to something you said a moment ago. It wasn’t just the real foods, although that did a lot for you both. It’s done a lot for all of us. You also were talking about doing some work to understand the patterns of your family, maybe emotional eating, or what was at the root of the psychology behind turning to food for comfort and whatnot. Did you do some of that kind of work as well?

Absolutely. A big part of our methodology is that movement is medicine and emotional regulation. Without examining this piece to the equation in any health crisis, we’re overstepping something that’s incredibly valuable. One of the things we realized in our family is that there’s a scarcity context. It’s not even real, but it was real for my grandmother and your great-grandmother.

We have to work on aligning with what’s true. One of the best ways to do that is to get out in the sunshine, eat real food, and have real conversations and relationships with people who are willing to be honest with you about what’s true and what’s real and are willing to be a stand for your greatness. All of these are ingredients in the equation of vitality, health, longevity, happiness, and wholeness. We had to look at this.

A lot of the time, we do this movement practice that’s both structured and unstructured movement with sound that we make, as well as sound from the music. It’s tribal, very emotive, and engaging. It helps us to work through the emotions. We have these classes in our program. Also, find other ways to regulate emotions because stuffing them down with food is not a long-term strategy and not viable.

Penelope, your mom was saying it’s important to have someone by you speaking the truth over you when you’re dejected and feeling like your life isn’t worth living. Your mom was that for you. Was there anyone else around you, Penelope, who was bringing that light, love, and support to you?

Honestly, no. My mom was my accountability partner, my coach, and my everything. I believe that we’re not meant to lose weight alone. Studies even backed this up, that partnership in weight loss, whether it’s a friend, a buddy, or an accountability partner, is the way to go. Food is like an addiction. When you’re addicted to food or when you’re morbidly obese, usually, there’s some kind of addiction there. You need somebody to meet with every day, talk to every day, or check in with every day, like, “I’m feeling low. Let’s strategize and do something different,” or, “This isn’t working for me.”

On the journey, there are so many highs and lows, and you need someone there. My mom was there for me the whole time. I lost a lot of friends on my weight loss journey because of the weight loss and because I wasn’t indulging in the same behaviors. That does come with weight loss. You do lose friends who were enabling behaviors or didn’t want the best for you when you realize that. That is painful, for sure.

Helene, did you see that happening to Penelope?

Yeah. With the people who were around her, there were some strange power dynamics. When she owned who she was and started being an example of that out in the world, those people didn’t know how to fit into the equation anymore. She has a whole new set of friends. She’s also very selective. She’s always been that way, though. Before you could speak and whatnot, you would say a sparkle. That was the barometer. She’s like, “That person has enough sparkle to be around me.” She’s very selective.

That’s true. I’m very selective.

I want to ask you, too. You mentioned Ozempic. What are some of the other quick fixes out there that are often recommended for people to lose weight that are only temporary Band-Aids? I’m thinking of gastric bypass surgery. Isn’t there a stomach stapling thing that some people do so that they can fit less in their stomach? How does that work for people, do you think?

I believe that these surgeries, whether it’s stomach stapling, the gastric bypass surgery, or any variation within the bariatric world, are concerning. I’ve worked and coached with dozens of people who have had these surgeries. Although they will have weight loss, which anybody will have after a big surgery like that, they haven’t looked at the emotional piece that was causing the behavioral problem in the first place, so they’re left empty-handed.

The medical model doesn’t support lifestyle change. It’s not incentivized. Until and unless we figure out a way for insurance companies to get involved with accountability and educational partners, I don’t see a big change happening for the chronic disease reversal epidemic that we’re experiencing. Bariatric patients are no different.

What we also notice is they’re chronically dehydrated because they can only drink so much water so frequently. They have to titrate their water intake, which is a problem. They also have chronic malabsorption issues, so they have to take supplements for the rest of their lives that they may or may not be absorbing because their intestines are compromised. You’re signing up for a lifelong setup of ill health because you are altering a very perfect and innate body.

Our bodies are like works of art. Start studying how it works, the nature of your appetite, what even causes you to be hungry, and how processed food is hijacking our survival mechanism, because your hunger and appetite are driving the propagation of the human species. That’s how intelligent it is. These ultra-processed foods with petroleum-based food dyes and fake ingredients, which they can’t even call food, are doing all that down. It is somewhat criminal. You can find these foods in Scandinavian countries, but they’re very expensive, and people don’t eat them. Americans need to wake up and take full responsibility. It may not be their fault that they’re in this situation, but it’s their responsibility.

Something you’ll notice with people who have maybe gotten the gastric bypass or who are even on Ozempic is that most of these people still eat the same food, but they eat less of it. A lot of people are not strength training, not hydrating, and not eating proper foods. They’re eating junk food, the same junk food they used to eat, in smaller portions.

Johann Hari wrote a book called The Magic Pill, where he goes on Ozempic. He admits that he goes to KFC, gets the same order he used to when he was 300-something pounds, and eats a little less of it. He’s eating the same food. He doesn’t work out, or he doesn’t work out that often, even though he’d like to try to. He’s one example of thousands or millions of people who are on this drug and not implementing these changes because they’re not watched over by people that closely, because the doctor only gets fifteen minutes with these patients.

Sustainable Change: Real Food & Community Support

Being that these foods are so concocted and constructed, like you said, Helene, they’re like pseudo foods, they are made, oftentimes also, with the right chemical ingredients to stimulate addiction and to make us addicted to them. Some people call them hyperpalatable foods. How is it that any of us can wean ourselves off them?

100%. We do it every day. We’re on the front lines with women who are in the grips of ultra-processed food. One of the women that we met only goes to the grocery store once a month. I was like, “What does she eat?” I started to think through that and started to study her. She’s primarily eating ultra-processed foods. We know that 70% of American children are eating ultra-processed food as the majority of their diet. That is concerning.

We’ve been brainwashed that our bodies are not designed to heal themselves, but they do.

Weaning yourself off is so simple. It’s simple to say, but it’s a little bit more challenging to do. If you trust the process, in one week, you can completely transform your life and turn your health around. That’s what we noticed. Depending on how much food and how long you’ve been eating ultra-processed food, it can vary, but at least 3 to 5 days for the sugar addiction to start to transform.

First, find the sugar. Where is it hiding? Get rid of those foods. Figure out what you’re going to make instead. That whole process can take three weeks to see, decide, and then resource. Find again that which you can make for yourself, like salad dressings, your whole proteins, your vegetables, and all the things. It could be 3 to 5 days that we noticed. Sometimes, people will get sick. They’ll get what feels like a cold or the flu, but that’s the body’s way of detoxing. We’ve noticed it’s very consistent. Within two weeks, you’re free.

Our girls aren’t looking in the rear-view mirror. They’ve tried a couple of times to eat the Milky Way candy bar or the cake, and they’re like, “It doesn’t taste good anymore,” because their taste buds completely rehabilitate themselves. It’s miraculous how the human body was designed to heal itself. This whole Ozempic conversation and external validation are examples. We’ve been brainwashed that our bodies are not designed to heal themselves, but they do.

I’m four years sober from sugar and flour because I’ve never looked back after that. I never wanted to look back. I never needed to.

Overcoming Skepticism & Making Healthier Versions

I love that. Dr. Price would be so proud of you, Penelope. He said the displacing foods of modern commerce, which he didn’t call addictive at the time, he could see the deleterious effects on indigenous people groups that started shifting over to flour, sugar, vegetable oils, and so forth. I love that. Four years sober from that. What do you say to the people, you two, who say, “It can’t be that easy,” or, “I can’t give up my Domino’s,” or whatever it is? How do you respond to the skeptic who thinks it’s going to be too hard to shift?

You don’t have to give it up. You have to learn how to make it in a different way. I still eat a cheeseburger. You can still have cheeseburgers, but you use different ingredients. You learn how to do that. We teach people how to make French fries at home, but we use rutabaga, carrots, or sweet potatoes. You put them in an air fryer or you bake them. There’s a way to make your favorite foods.

We have entire books on how to go from that double cheeseburger that you love so much to a cheeseburger that will give you energy and weight loss. They can’t even fathom that they could do that at home. They’re cheaper, faster, easier, and better for you with beautiful skin. Who doesn’t want to eat food that gives you beautiful skin? We weren’t taught in school. In our society, it’s not glamorized to cook at home and make your own food. It’s cooler to go out and get Crumbl or Starbucks, but you can make it at home for so much better and cheaper.

You start bringing it with you, and your friends are like, “What’s that? You know?” They start to notice you’re glowing. They start to see that you’re energized and so positive all the time, and then they want to learn, too. That’s what we’ve noticed has been happening. We make bread out of sprouted mung beans or other sprouted grains.

It is learning about how to do it so that you are looking forward to the food you’re making more than going out and doing that thing that is harming you, because it’s really harming you. I underestimated it even with all the knowledge that I have accumulated. Maybe that had to happen. I’m sorry that it had to happen, Penelope.

It all happened for a reason.

I don’t wish it on anyone.

It sounds so dark and hard. Going back to what you were saying about learning, Helene, how did you learn about the Weston A. Price Foundation? Did that inform some of your weight loss protocols?

Completely. I started studying nutrition obsessively when I had my acne problem in my late teens. I found, at some point in my journey, Sally Fallon’s book, Nourishing Traditions, and studied it. I studied it for years and made as many recipes as I possibly could. A lot of the things she was saying were aligning with the healing traditions that I was learning because I lived in Europe for ten years in Switzerland, Germany, France, and Greece. A lot of the things that she was describing in this book, I was witnessing firsthand in the community. I learned to speak the languages fluently and was deep in their cultures.

Nature is not out to get you. The sun is not going to harm you. Reconnecting with the natural kingdom is the key to everything.

Everything was starting to make sense to me with all the studies I was reading as I was getting my bachelor’s and Master’s degrees in nutrition. I was starting to understand how food is medicine, how food is healing, and how food can reverse disease. Things were lining up. I especially liked the fact that the book was for diet dictocrats. I’m a rebel, and I loved that. I thought that was so cool. I learned so much. It made so much sense.

I started to integrate a lot of that into my life and always kept it at the back of my mind when I veered off into this community that was sprouted raw vegan foods for disease reversal. I was there for about seven years, fully committed, and seeing amazing, miraculous interventions with major health issues. I then noticed long-term that there were some pieces missing from the equation. The Weston A. Price methodologies and whatnot helped me to create a fuller picture.

I also have some influence in macrobiotics, the traditional Chinese medicine healing modalities, as well as Ayurveda. I have hundreds, maybe thousands, of hours of Ayurveda healing as well, which uses fat to detox and uses restorative cleansing practices. It’s painting this picture of all the possibilities so that we can meet people wherever they are in their journey with whatever they’re ready for, whether it’s a black bean brownie, a stew, or whatever it is. Wherever they are, we can meet them and help them to heal.

That’s wonderful. Also, since we were talking about real foods for healing, I want to let people know that the Weston A. Price Foundation has chapter leaders and chapters all around the world. People can reach out. Go to Weston A. Price Foundation. You find a person near you, and you ask them to give you a resource list. You talked about resourcing, Helene. People can find real food where they live in farmers, in farmers’ markets, or places that they can trust to find real food.

That is so important. I hope everyone reading follows up and does that because that is the first step. One of my goals in life is not to go to the grocery store. It’s to support all the farmers. We have, luckily, two that live down the hill from our house that we support. That’s where my dollars go to feed our family and our community. There’s so much power in that. We underestimate the power of our purchasing decisions because that’s driving everything.

For all the moms out there, you are dictating the GDP. All the money spent is by the moms. I want to encourage moms to eat real food, cook real food, and be an example. I didn’t know you’d come around. I was on Master Chef. I don’t know if you knew. I’m a good cook, and Penelope still wouldn’t eat with me for those few years.

That’s true. For a long time.

I’m pinching myself. Moms have hope. The obesity epidemic is also a pandemic of hopelessness. There is hope. I pray that everyone reading this is inspired and ignited to take some action because everything counts. Everything matters, what you think, what you eat, what you say, and what you feel.

That’s true. Penelope, I have one more question for you, and then a question for both of you. When you look to the future, Penelope, do you have the passion that your mom does? Do you want to keep helping people regain their health? What do you see for yourself?

Mom and I started Step It Up, which is our company where we help women lose weight every day. I graduated early from high school at seventeen. I was like, “I need to help women. God gave me this path to help women who are struggling with what I struggled with.” Even young girls, there are so many young girls who are trapped in their rooms, who are morbidly obese, and who think it’s okay, beautiful, and healthy because social media told them as well as their therapists and doctors. I know that they’re out there. I feel called to help them, help moms, and help women in general because we deserve health, beauty, and vitality. We need to learn how to get that back.

I learned from you, Mom. I’m amazed by you. I never thought that we would be where we are, but you’re my best friend. We work together, so that’s interesting. We also cook together every day. We’re in the garden together. I’m learning how to garden from you, sprout in the kitchen, sprout whole grains, dehydrate the grains, and revitalize the wheat berries. They are these amazing things I never thought I’d learn, even how to sew. You’ve taught me more than school has.

Thank you.

She introduced me to the Nourishing Traditions recipe book, which I’m starting to make some recipes from. I made the sweet potato cookies, and they were so fluffy. I’m amazed by the book. I am so excited to learn from you and all the things that you’ve learned. I want to spend the rest of my life learning from you. I’m so humbled by you, and I know I have so much to learn from you. I’m very grateful.

Don’t make me cry.

I know. I’m going to cry, too. Maybe we’ll wrap it up, and then we’ll go cry together. It’s very moving and so beautiful. I’m so happy for you, Penelope, to have regained your health, your energy, and your vitality. You are glowing. You are as well, Helene. This way of eating and living is so gratifying, and I love that you’re helping other people, too. Speaking of that, I want to pose to you the question I love to pose at the end. If the reader could do one thing to improve their health by taking one step in the right direction, what would you recommend that they do? Helene, why don’t we start with you? Then, Penelope, you can follow up.

One thing I would say is to get back in nature. Experience moments of awe every single day. If you can, get your bare feet on the ground and get your eyes looking at that morning sun and the evening sun. I believe nature has all of the answers. If you can spend more time committing, not to your screen, but to being in nature and having your feet on the ground and your hands in the dirt, you will have revelations. You will increase the microbial integrity of your body. You will invite power into your cells through that sunlight energy.

Nature is not out to get you. The sun is not going to harm you. Reconnecting with the natural kingdom is the key to everything. The more we disconnect from that, the more problems we see in our house. I would encourage people, especially this time of year, to get out in nature and spend some time getting curious about whatever bugs are in your soil, trees you have in the garden, or whatever park you can find close by.

I love it. Penelope, what about you? What would you recommend that they do?

I would say make all of your food at home using whole ingredients. Do that. If that’s one thing you can do, it’s going to change your life, your skin, and your family’s life. Make your favorite foods at home using whole ingredients. If you don’t know how, then learn how. The world is our oyster. We have more information than we have ever had. We have all these amazing books and recipes that we can find anywhere. You can research online how to make anything you want. It’s that simple and that easy.

That’s beautiful. Helene and Penelope, on behalf of the Weston A. Price Foundation, thank you so much for your time. It’s been a pleasure.

Thank you.

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Our guests were Helene Leeds and Penelope Popken. Visit their websites, Step it UP Accountability Group and Step it UP, to learn more. Here is a review from Apple Podcasts. It’s short and sweet. SSedai had this to say, “I enjoy this podcast. Highly recommend.” SSedai, thank you for taking the two seconds it took to write that review. You can do the same thing. It’s not hard. It means a lot to us. It lets people know the show is worth tuning in to. Please go to Apple Podcasts. Go to Ratings and Reviews, give us five stars or whatever you think is appropriate, and tell people why they should tune in. Thank you so much for reading. Stay well, and remember to keep your feet on the ground and your face to the sun.

About Helene Leeds & Penelope Popken

Penelope Popken transformed from a 320-pound teenager paralyzed by anxiety and depression into a powerful health advocate who has lost 160 pounds naturally. Rejecting both medical interventions and passive acceptance from the body positivity movement, Popken is a weight loss coach and influencer promoting natural weight loss and health transformation. She has helped hundreds of women reclaim their health through whole foods and non-invasive approaches.

Helene Leeds, MS, stands as a preeminent figure in lifestyle medicine with over three decades of experience and prestigious educational credentials from the Sorbonne and University of Fribourg. As founder of the Food is Healing Culinary Institute and an international speaker who has shared stages with Deepak Chopra, Leeds has demonstrably impacted thousands through her evidence-based methodologies for reversing chronic diseases. Her unrivaled expertise has been institutionalized through training over 1,000 wellness coaches globally and developing transformational programs adopted by major corporations valued above $200 million, cementing her status as a leading wellness entrepreneur whose integrated approach combining Iyengar Yoga, nutritional psychology, and “Food as Medicine” philosophy represents the cutting edge of holistic health transformation.