Will Winter is a charming storyteller. A holistic veterinarian, Will demonstrates a keen understanding of both two-legged and four-legged animals. He touches on a number of topics in today’s discussion: from the expense of eating organic foods (and why it’s worth it) to the reason he was a vegetarian for 23 years.
He is the local chapter leader for the Weston A. Price Foundation for Minneapolis-St. Paul and moderates several web discussion groups about sustainable, local, and nutrient-dense food as well as for the natural rearing of pastured livestock. He is the author of “The Holistic Veterinary Handbook.”
Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda Labrada Gore and the regular text is Will Winter.
Hi Will! Welcome to the podcast!
Thank you very much!
So, I heard you say, there was a time when an egg was still an egg. What are you trying to say? Is an egg not an egg anymore? Explain that.
Well, it came up with my in-laws. My wife’s parents grew up and they went through WWI and post war and all of that. We’re trying to help them look at organic fruit and vegetables or local, but they just said, “Well why would you want to pay a dollar a pound for bananas when you can get them for 19 cents a pound?” I think in their day, a banana was just a banana. Maybe there was a difference, but I think things were a lot better. So now we have food that has basically no flavor, and the flavor is always associated with what’s inside, in nature. So flavor, things we associate with flavor, growing up, you know however many thousands of years we’ve been human beings, we would look for things that tasted good because the taste would give us an indication that there’s something inside
So today, an egg on the outside might look the same. This one’s white, that one’s white.
It looks exactly the same
But if you actually take one that’s come from a chicken that’s lived a happy life the differences in both in appearance and taste are stark.
The problem is we have cheaters and they can make that egg yolk orange and beautiful by feeding food coloring to the chicken. So they can fake us out. There’s an incredible book that Mark Schatzker wrote, The Dorito Effect. The reason that he called it The Dorito Effect is that a Dorito tastes like a taco.
But there’s no cheese in it, there’s no meat in it, there’s not much of anything in it. It’s a corn chip and they were making corn chips for a really long time and the sales were ok because the corn chip tasted like whatever you dipped it in. It was just a utensil you could eat. Well, they got the wild idea, why don’t we make a Dorito that tastes like a taco? It was like, holy, this is awesome! The problem is, there’s nothing in it. Normally, if something tastes really good, this is again going back in time, you would eat a little bit and you would get full, because it has nutrition in it. You would be full and done deal. Well with a bag of chips you can eat a whole bag of chips because there’s still nothing in it except calories, so you get fat.
I tell friends of mine, that the reason you keep eating, people get mad at themselves or feel guilty that they ate a whole bag of chips but, it’s because their body’s saying keep sending it, because I know the nutrients are coming, and the nutrients never come. That’s what you’re saying.
You just hit the nail right on the head, That’s exactly it. Now I work for Thousand Hills Cattle Company and I’ve got the vest on. We sell 100% grassfed beef, gourmet grassfed beef and it’s very nutrient dense. So the funny thing is people will say, well it’s more expensive. I don’t really say this to people but I’m thinking to myself, you know it really isn’t because I serve thousands of steaks to guys that would normally go to a steakhouse and eat a 32 ounce steak and they’re still hungry and they have dessert. I give them a 10 or 12 ounce ribeye or NY strip and I go want another steak? They’re like, why? I feel great! I don’t think I can eat another bite. When they see the little bitty steak coming out on their plate, you know, a 10 ounce steak isn’t all that big, they go, this is a great appetizer where is my real steak, is my real steak coming? And I say, just eat that, and we’ll see how it goes, it’s very nutrient dense.
So the more nutrient dense it is, the more satisfying it is
Exactly. So you don’t get fat on nutrient dense food, you don’t get obese. You get nourished so you don’t get sick either so that’s the beauty of it. The trick is, how do you make nutrient dense food? That’s the trick.
Factory farms are probably never going to give us nutrient dense food. They’re going to give us quantity, but they’re not going to give us quality.
Americans seem pretty impressed with quantity, right? Look at all of the food I can get at this restaurant for $19.99, so they’re thrilled.
How could that be? Yeah.
And how can that be?
Well, our food dollar now, we are spending somewhere around 6-9 percent of all of our money on food. There have been times, in our culture in America where almost 50% of your money goes to getting enough food to keep you alive. I love going to Italy, because the Italians really know how to eat.
It’s kind of interesting because the Italians spend about 22% of their total income on food. They really have great food, they have nutrient dense food. They have volcanic, rich soil, 85% of Italy is volcanic mountainous soil. So it’s very rich, even though there’s been people living there forever, and farming forever they still have rich soil. My friend Jerry Brunetti and I went over there and we took some soil home from where he grew up, from where his roots are in Italy. It had a cation-exchange capacity, that’s a technical term, cec. That means how much minerals in that soil. It was 38. A typical American soil would be 6- 10.
Are you kidding?
Right so that’s calcium, magnesium, all of the minerals that make up soil, were very very high and this was just garden soil from one of his relative’s garden. We noticed you could take tomatoes there from your garden and they’re beautiful, rich colored, put them on your kitchen shelf for 6 weeks or more and they still hold, because they have all the phytonutrients. So what we’re talking about in plants is phytonutrients, that means plant nutrients, and their secondary plant polyphenolic compounds. You’ve heard of resveratrol and lycopene and lutein, these are antioxidants that are in plants. The plant is making it to keep the plant healthy. I have a garden and the two things I love growing are cherry trees and grape vines. I have grape vines. What I’ll do, is I’ll take a little instrument called a refractometer, a Brix refractometer. This is a little tool that costs you a under a hundred dollars and it tells you the nutrient density of the plant. What I do, and I live in Minnesota, so the trees are leafed out by May or June, so I’ll take some of the leaves off the grape vines or the cherry trees squeeze out a drop of sap, because the sap of the plant is like our blood. If somebody pulled blood from one of us and looked at it and it looked like Kool aid, you could see through it, ay yay yay, that’s not good. That’s bad, that means that’s your blood, that’s your nourishment. The sap is a plant’s blood. So, I’ll put it on the refractometer, you look at it like a little telescope, there’s no moving parts in it, but it refracts light. You’re looking for a number above 12.
The refractometer usually goes from 0 to 32. If my grapes and cherry trees are like 6, I’m going to have wormy cherries and moldy grapes, when they set fruit. So then I’ve got to get to doctoring on the plant. Like I’ll use a foliar application, or maybe I could lime the soil a little bit, or maybe add a little more mulch, or fertilizer to the soil, because I know the plant is sick, and has weak sap.
So it’s a great card for your plants. It’s pretty fun to go to a Farmer’s Market with a little refractometer and a garlic press and they’re like, “What are you doing?” and I say, “Well,I’m going to buy some tomatoes here today, but I want to see who’s got really nutrient dense tomatoes. Oh yours is a 4!” It’s kind of embarrassing you have to be kind of careful with it. I’ve seen conventional grapes that are not organic, that will brix 26, 28, and I’ve seen organic grapes that brix 6.
Just being organic, which by the way, organic is awesome, you really don’t want to eat food that’s not organic. But, we’re talking about something that is beyond organic. So we’re talking no poisons, but also something that has some nutrient density, that’s what we’re looking for. So taking your refractometer to the farmer’s market, or even to the grocery store- I’ll do it here at the conference just to see what the lettuce we’re eating- how nutrient dense it is. It’s just fascinating.
It is, but for most of us we’re not going to have a refractometer, right? You said we can’t always judge the quality of the food by the appearance, so how are we supposed to know?
Your question is a very good one, and the answer to that question about how do you know, is you want to be able to shake the hand of the person that raised it. That’s what’s called local, that’s my definition of local. Do you know who raised those carrots you are eating? Really you don’t, ok well then it’s a crap shoot. You don’t really know if you have nutrient density or not. Sure, you can look at the color, you can taste the flavor. You can go to their website perhaps and see if they’re bragging about certain things that they’re doing. Isn’t it really all about education like what you’re doing here?
What I found in selling the grassfed beef is people love being ignorant. We all do. You know I’m in a supermarket, I’ve got a little grill, and I say “Would you like to try some 100% grassfed beef?” Most people say, “Well I sure would.” If they’re walking by and they’ve got 10 pounds of ground beef and they’re the bargain basement special, very frequently they will say, “I know, I know what I’ve got is really bad” and this is kind of funny that sometimes they’ll say, “I’m having company this weekend, they don’t really care what they eat.” And it’s like, oh my God! Or even worse, they’ll say, “Well we’ve got a big family reunion and I need to get 10 lbs of roast, and my family, they’re not foodies.”
Well two things, one is you’re cheating your family. Even if they don’t care, and two you’re supporting the industry that makes crummy food. Every bite you take is a vote for the kind of food we want to have on our planet. You can’t control people. You see somebody lined up at McDonalds, which always blows me away when I see a fast food joint and the cars are like a mile long. They’ve got $50,000 SUVs and they’re putting garbage in their body. It’s like, what? You know you can’t tell me you’re in this car and that you’re at McDonalds because you can’t afford to go to Whole Foods or Trader Joes or your co-op and get good food. So again, to me, that is a desire to be ignorant, and I hear it all the time. “I know it’s bad, but I’m a single mom”, you know or whatever.
Right there’s some kind of disconnect where people are willing to put their time and their money.
Exactly, it’s priority. What is a priority to you? Certainly a cell phone, certainly cable tv, certainly three cars. You’ve got to have a 60in flat screen tv, but then you’re gonna go to some cheap fast food joint. And the other thing that is part of my petty irritations, is “ I don’t have time to cook.” We all have 24 hours, so what is more important to you than your body, your health? I’m curious, what are you doing, I mean besides watching television for 12 hours a day? I’ve got this great Homer Simpson cartoon, that I cut out. He’s got his head on the table and he says, “Oh I don’t have any food, I just have ingredients to make food.”
I think you’re right, I think it’s a matter of priority. I think the art of cooking has been lost.
That’s for sure.
And consequently, all the big companies that are producing the fast food and the inexpensive food are taking advantage of that. It’s all about convenience and something that is almost an imitation that looks like what our mother used to make. Some of the names on the frozen food packages say Mama’s cooking, right? But it’s not Mama’s cooking, it’s quite different as a matter of fact.
Again, about Italy, Mama is there. You’re watching Mama make the pasta, you’re watching Mama make the pesto, the tomato sauce and there’s joy and pride and art in that food. We are mostly Europeans or we came from somewhere where there was a food culture, where there was some type of pride.
It’s really fun to go back to Life and look at magazines from the 50s and every ad was for labor saving, time saving, how this range will save you so much time. So it was all about how can we get out of the kitchen, that it was a trap to be in the kitchen. I get part of that, and a lot of what happened to our diet in America is the two family income. Which is a very dangerous trap because as soon as you have a dual income family that means your standard living is going to zoom right up to whatever your income level is with the husband and wife working. Well that’s double risky because what if one person looses their income, and you’ve got this high standard of living, and then you have to live on one income, what are you going to cut? It’s happening to a lot of people.
When we were talking a moment ago about what we spend our time doing, you mentioned watching tv, but I was thinking, it’s work. It’s work that we also don’t disconnect from.
Perceived as work.
It’s labor like both people and the family are working hard, and they’re wearing themselves out.
Time is the most valuable thing we have. It’s really the only thing we have. We trade time for money, which is fine. But whatever we’re trading time for, should be something of value to us. Whether its cooking or watching television or just doing nothing, but time is our most precious commodity.
Now, I’m very lucky to be married to a woman who loves cooking, and our favorite evening is to cook together, open a bottle of wine and we’re watching each other dazzle the other one making something incredible. And then we’re sitting there eating it feeling almost smug and guilty like. This is so good! This is like the best chicken I’ve ever had in my life. You couldn’t buy chicken like this at any restaurant. Nobody has chicken like our chicken. We’re clinking our wine glasses together.
So it’s a great date sitting at home having this meal that probably costs us half of what it would cost us at a restaurant and we don’t have to worry about crummy service and we love washing the dishes together. So for us, it’s become a really fun thing to do.
But I’ll tell you what, changing the subject a little bit, anybody can say what we’ve said.
What I do is on the other end, where we have another type of amnesia where farmers no longer know how how to make food. And they’re not rewarded for it. They’re not paid for it. And, they’ve lost that touch. Now when I was in vet school, I was in the antibiotic era, and the vaccine era, and the wormer era. So what happened is in the 40s and 50s they said, “Now you boys you don’t need to do all of those minerals and kelp and all that stuff. If you’ve got a sick animal we’ll just give it this penicillin. And we’ve got these vaccines now so you don’t need to do all this fertilizer and stuff because we’ve got these drugs.” So its a crutch, that enabled you to not do all the work of raising healthy animals.
So what I did is I started looking for antique farming books, agricultural books, veterinary books. They knew everything that we do now in holistic and natural medicine. It’s in those books. It was taught in the (?) at colleges. Farmers were intelligent, they were creative, they were artisanal, and they had to be, because you didn’t have crutches. If you didn’t have healthy animals you weren’t ranching.
You weren’t going to just give them a vaccine to get over whatever they had gotten.
It was Darwin, if you had bad crops that got grasshoppers on them and they got aphids on them and all types of blight, you weren’t a farmer anymore you moved to town and you lost your farm. So, only the cream of the crop survived. Now with all these crutches, a monkey could raise corn and beans now, you’re riding around in circles on your tractor looking at the gps. So, it’s dumbed down farming and ranching to the point where pretty much everybody survives.
Basically most of them are farming the government to be honest. It’s funny, the farm community is kind of a conservative community. And I, you know old hippies never die, I went to college in the 60s and 70s we became, you might say, liberalized. But all I hear is like those welfare bums, they’re stealing all of our tax money. Well if you really want to look at the welfare bums it’s the modern farmer. There’s trillions of dollars going into supporting people to raise stuff that you can’t eat. They’re not raising food. Corn is just this industrial product and soybeans is an industrial product that you make stuff out of. You can’t eat it, it’s not food. They’re not feeding America.
So what do you mean by that? What do you mean corn and soy aren’t food? Aren’t they subsidized crops to produce more food for people? What are you talking about?
It’s not food, it goes in your gas tank. It’s ethanol. It is converted in this Frankenstein factory into high fructose corn syrup. That’s what that goes to. So you can’t eat it, it’s an industrial product. You try to eat one of those ears of corn, if you want to have a good laugh, there’s a movie about corn. Do you know what I’m talking about?
King Corn! In King Corn, these two college kids realize that they both had a grandpa in the same small town in Iowa. It was like freaky, serendipitous. So they went to this small and they did this project. They wanted to do one acre of gmo corn just like farmers do it in Iowa. So this farmer let them have an acre in the middle of this monstrous corn field. So they did the combine, they did the planning and they did everything. Mostly they played frisbee and twiddled their thumbs, because in modern farming there’s not a lot of labor in it. You are setting in a tractor for a few days but that’s about it. Then you’re just waiting for the corn to happen. So when they got their corn they said. “Let’s eat some!” So they shucked the corn and they take a bite out of it and they’re chewing on the corn and their faces are really funny. They just spit it out. It was like, this was like eating a cardboard box. It was awful.
And real corn, not made with gmos, and in a different kind of configuration, maybe not a monocrop on the farm. Real corn, you can eat it just like that?
If it’s 100% corn, you can eat it just raw like that, you can cook it, you can grind it, you can dry it, you can make cornmeal. That is food. That’s one of the original foods that sustained the indigenous people in North America.
Alright, well let’s say this. So you’ve convinced me that I want to eat some of this real food that you’re describing. I don’t have money to go to Italy to get it from that rich soil that you were describing. How can I get it?
Well for one, have a garden. If you don’t know how to garden, just plant something, and you’ll learn so much, you’ll have so much fun. Just throw some seeds in the ground and watch it grow. It’s fascinating. You might end up with one ear of corn, or three tomatoes or a couple of green beans, but they’ll be the best ones you ever had in your life, because you grew them. There’s nothing more fun, even if you live in a condo or an apartment. Have a pot garden on your patio, just get some pots and dirt and throw some garden plants in there, even culinary herbs you can raise your own herbs so that’s one way. That’s by far the best way.
The other way is through the Weston A. Price Foundation which is where we’re sitting. EatWild.com. There’s a bunch of sites where you can find places that have nutrient dense, traditional, wonderful food. There are resource guides for finding good food. Where ever you live, I don’t care where you live, you’ll find thousands of places across the country where you can get good food. Also, don’t expect to find good food at any supermarket or big box store.
Well I was going to say you know, someone might say to you, “Gosh that sounds like a lot of trouble, I’ve got to plan a garden and I don’t have time for that, and I don’t really want to go to these websites. I’m just going to pick up stuff at the store.” What’s the problem with that?
Well it’s funny, I came from a farm family in Kansas and all my cousins just about are dead. I’ve only got a few left of farm cousins. The more they were working on our farm the quicker they died. I have cousins that died in their 30s and 40s of cancer. Because what has happened in my lifetime, every aunt and uncle I had, had a garden. We had a garden, a big garden. It would be a big production. We put up enough canned goods to last all winter long. It was just part of life. Everybody had mason jars and kerr jars. We put up every kind of vegetable and fruit imaginable. Now, my relatives, and most of them, I hate to say it but they’re too fat to walk out to the barn. They take the four wheeler just to go to the barn cause they don’t walk anymore, they don’t exercise. And they’re too stiff and they’re too stove up to even move. They get their food where they get their gas. They go to the Quick Trip or the 7-11 and they’re getting bread and milk and eggs at the Quick Trip. Or they’re going to Wally World to get their food.
Again, we sell grass fed beef. What we found is that companies like Thousand Hills develop the market for grass fed beef. Ed Churchill the owner of Thousand Hills, one evening he said, “I’m going to do this.” He went and bought all the different grass fed beefs he could find. Some of it was the worst beef he had ever eaten in his life. Some of it though was the best steak he had ever had in his life. He was trying to figure out what is the difference, why is some of it tough and gamey. We now know how to make gourmet 100% grassfed beef that’s tender, delicious and nutritious and very nutrient dense. We know how to do that end of it. So that’s how he started the company.
When we put it out on the shelf, at supermarkets and co-ops, our hamburger was $4.99 a pound in 2003, regular hamburger was $1.99 a pound and they look identical. So the customers are going, “$4.99, $1.99, looks identical, why in God’s earth would I want to pay $4.99 for the same thing?” We’re going “It’s not the same thing” we’re talking about omega 3 fat, we’re talking about CLA (conjugated linoleic acid), we’re talking about feed lot hormones, pesticides and antibiotics. “Well I don’t know I think I’ll get the $1.99.” So what did we do, we started putting little grills out and everybody that worked at Thousand Hills, myself the veterinarian were all with our little apron on, our cowboy hat. “Would you like to try some 100% grassfed beef?” So putting it in thousands of people’s mouths and the second they taste it, guess what’s the first word that comes out of their mouth is usually?
I could just imagine
Yeah,wow, and then they might say, “Where is it?” “It’s right over there in the case”, and it jumps into the shopping cart.
Because you could tell them all the health benefits and how you raise the cow and care but what really sold them was the taste.
The taste, taste is what we use now as the short story. “Why is your beef different?” “Taste it, and you’ll know.” And then the other thing people say if they’re over about 55 is, “Wow, I remember when beef used to taste like this.” They remember. You remember flavors from your childhood. Beef tastes like katsup now. Steaks taste like A1 sauce, because it has no flavor.
Yeah, I know what you’re talking about because I used to like the fast food burger, back in the day, and then years later I went to get one from the same fast food place and I was like, “This doesn’t taste like what it did before.” I realized, something changed.
I’ve done that with a candy bar that I had as a little kid and I’d find it and would be like, “Oh they have Cherry Mash!” That was a candy bar that we used to have in Kansas and they don’t have them in Minnesota and I found one. I bit in to that thing and practically spit it out it was so bad. I know for a fact that they’ve changed those candy bars.
But what’s interesting is, young people today, people being raised in this environment today, they don’t know the difference, because they’ve never tasted the good stuff, right? So they make do they think, “Oh this is what popcorn tastes like when it’s popped in microwave chemicals.” They don’t know any different.
I mention one must buy book, which is The Dorito Effect by Mark Schatzer. His first book was called Steak, just the word steak. He went around the world trying to find the best steak in the world. Fascinating book, maybe a vegetarian wouldn’t like it, but the book fascinated me because he figured out what flavor is about. So, when he wrote The Dorito Effect, the cool thing about the book is not only does factory food have no flavor, there are companies that make what is called “flavor solutions” I could make this piece of paper taste like a watermelon. I could make it taste like a hamburger. I could make it taste like a french fry. One drop of these flavor solutions. So that McDonald’s hamburger, and I’m not picking on them, just any hamburger, first of all the meat that’s in it would taste like wet toilet paper, without the flavor solution on it. But they put these drops on it and, dang, they taste good.
And your taste buds get fooled, then you get fooled.
Fool your tastebuds. So it’s a combination of low nutrition density food, low flavor food, and they dribble some artificial flavor on it to fake you out and you get fat, stupid and sick.
Yeah I was going to say the trade off is, you know when I was talking about the person who wants to disregard some of the things we’re talking about, they’re compromising their own health and they don’t realize it, right?
You’re right about, there’s only so far we can go with health issues or environmental issues. Grassfed beef has to be the only thing that’s ever been brought up that could actually save us from climate change.
The reason is when we rotate cattle, it’s just like the bison. We can sequester carbon that’s up in the sky and put it down in the earth where it was. Modern farming has created global warming and climate change. Agriculture’s the number one source of pollution, and it’s the number one source of destroying our carbon bank, our carbon sink, putting it up in the sky with all the open earth that you see, the ripping open of the earth. If I drove from here back to Minnesota, I would see hundreds and hundreds of thousands of acres, bare naked, that have been, harvested, ploughed and then it’s setting all winter, just with nothing on it So, it’s just open dirt, blowing around, so much of the carbon, so much of the nitrogen, valuable precious substances, are blissing off into the sky.
You’re saying the opposite of what a lot of people say, they say that cows are causing climate change, but you’re saying that cows are saving the earth.
There’s a beautiful book by Nicolette Niman. She’s the wife of Bill Niman who has Niman meats. She wrote a book called Defending Beef that just came out now, it’s a best seller. She disputes every myth about beef. In fact, I’ll mention several books, because we’re talking about education.
If you’re an uneducated person, then you’re a vulnerable pawn to the system. You’ll end up in a hospital or you’ll end up in a hospice, you’ll die a miserable death, and they’ll suck all your money up. So, you really have to educate yourself. We can’t trust the government, we can’t trust education, we can’t trust universities any more, because they’re whores to money, there’s no other word for it. I was in college for virtually three degrees. I was part of the system, I did research, I cranked out phoney baloney, baloney research. I know how to do a research experiment to get what the people that paid for it want. I can design an experiment to get whatever your desired results are. So, we can’t trust them so we need these books.
We need to educate ourselves. Ok, tells us our books as we start to wrap up.
The other one is Lierre Keith, she’s a woman that lives in the Bay area of San Francisco and she was a vegan. She ate this vegan diet and she made herself deathly, near death sick, she pancaked her spine, all her bones collapsed, her kidneys failed, she was on dialysis from the vegan diet. So she wrote a book called The Vegetarian Myth. The three myths are: 1) That it is bad for the environment, it’s not bad for the environment. In fact row crops, corn and soy beans are horrible. 2) The other myth is that veganism is more humane. Tt is not more humane because of the vertebrates, the 3,000 vertebrates per acre that are killed in that. 3) The third myth is that being vegan or vegetarian is better for you. Those are the vegetarian myths every sixteen year old girl needs to read about because it’s really easy to get politicized and to tell these horrible stories about factory farms. It’s like, “ I’m never drinking milk again, I’m never eating an egg again.” because they (factory farms) are horrible.
They (factory farms) are horrible.
I was a vegetarian myself for twenty three years and I crashed part of my health from that, I’ve recuperated from it. I was an ethical vegetarian. I decided when I got out of vet school how can I be working on animals all day and then eat them at night, you know? And I thought, this doesn’t add up. So what I did, is I did not know that there are humane ways to raise beef. So now, I figure every bite of grass fed beef people eat that I raise, or my pastured pork, or my sheep and goats, is a bite of bad meat that they don’t eat.
It’s a bite of bad meat that they don’t eat.
If they’re eating a bite of the good meat, that’s one less bite of bad meat that they’re not going to buy or eat.
So they’re still eating meat but they’re healing their body. Now we know about traditional nutrition. Weston A. Price if he didn’t say anything else he said you’ve got to have animal food and you’ve got to have vegetable kingdom food. Some fruits and vegetables, some grains, some animal products. There’s no vegetarian traditional indigenous culture on the planet.
Well this has been a fascinating conversation Will, I think we’re going to have to talk with you another time to get more of your ideas.
We’re just getting wound up!
I know, I know, I love it! So, I guess the bottom line, is that we need to find the best source we can of nutrient dense food, and educate ourselves.
Education and that’s Weston A Price’s dying words, “You teach, you teach, you teach.” That’s what he said just as he died. That’s what we’re trying to follow here is we’re teaching people what we’ve learned through our own physical experiences. Half the people here (at the Weston A. Price Conference) have been deathly sick. If you haven’t had a failure, you’re fat dumb and happy, do to do to do! “Life’s great, I love hamburgers, I love french fries. I love coca cola. Oh I’ve got diabetes, what do you mean I’ve got diabetes?” Then you have the crash and then sometimes God gives you an opportunity to have a second chance, and I’m one of those.
Until you have a health crisis, you may not care enough to investigate. You’re saying, go for it, learn, grow, be a person that takes care of themselves, hopefully before you even get to that place.
If it’s possible, you know, Carl Jung said, “There’s no coming to consciousness without pain.” And he might be right. You might have to have a failure before you will change, hopefully not. Hopefully you can learn from our failures.
Hopefully you can learn from this podcast. Well thanks again for joining us, Will.
Well, good job!