What are our current restrictions – masks, lockdowns, social distancing, and more – doing to our children? What does the future hold for them? Will there be mandatory testing and vaccination? What are the physical, social, and psychological ramifications of the world’s response to this “pandemic” on children? Mary Holland, the President and General Counsel for Children’s Health Defense, explores the fall-out for our children from the “new normal” so far. She discusses the stated plan to not only test our children for the SARS-CoV-2 virus but to eventually vaccinate them as well. She discusses problems with both the testing and the injections. And she cites steps we can take to better inform ourselves and protect our children in the days to come.
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Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda.
2020 has surely had dramatic effects on everybody with masks, lockdown, social distancing, isolation, testing, church and school closings and more, but those least at risk of contracting or spreading the virus seem to be shouldering most of the psychological and social trauma of restrictions. I’m talking about the children and what else might the future hold for them. This is episode 304 and our guest is Mary Holland, the President and General Counsel for Children’s Health Defense. She covers the fallout for our children from the so-called new normal so far. She discusses the written plan of some in power to not only test our children for the SARS-CoV-2, but to eventually vaccinate them against it as well. She discusses problems with both the testing and the injections, and she cites steps that we can take to better inform ourselves and to protect our children in the days to come.
Welcome to the show, Mary.
Thank you for having me.
Because you work for the Children’s Health Defense, I thought it would be important for us to talk about children in terms of this whole COVID-SARS situation. Let’s take it from the baseline. Do you have any data on the likelihood of children contracting SARS-CoV-2, which is of course the virus that causes COVID?
I don’t have the numbers at my fingertips, Hilda, but the people across the age spans of the population who are at the lowest risk are children. They have the most vibrant immune systems when it comes to SARS-CoV-2 and they are at low risk. That’s not to say that children haven’t gotten sick or that certain children have died. That has happened. There’s been a multi-organ inflammatory syndrome that’s been observed and a low number, but some children have died. We can’t say that it’s a non-existent issue, but children are at the least risk of any other age sector in the population.
If that’s the case, why do I see children wearing masks, children’s social distancing, and just doing remote learning?
A lot of that pressure has come from governors and mayors who are afraid. It’s also come from teachers’ unions that are afraid. There’s not a lot of data that suggests that children are super-spreaders and that children are spreading the virus in school. In fact, in many countries, including Sweden, the schools have never been closed, but there’s some risk, although it’s low. Masks, distancing, temperature taking, physical barriers, disinfecting and hand sanitizer are all of the remediation efforts that have been put in schools where they’ve stayed open.
Hilda, in New York City for instance, I live outside of New York City, the school is closed from March through September of 2020, but then they reopened and they closed in November completely. They’re now reopening the elementary and middle school, but one of the things that’s troubling to us in the New York City context, and we’ve sued the city about this. They required families to “consent” to PCR testing, polymerase chain reaction testing, which does not test for the COVID infection. A family said, “The children couldn’t come to school.” The Los Angeles School District is now putting in place an even more restrictive entrance pass for students to be able to come on campus.
I want to back up, Mary, because you said the PCR test doesn’t diagnose the virus. What’s happening? I thought it was. I thought they were using that all over the place.
Hilda, they are using it all over the world. Part of what is so scandalous about the COVID epidemic is that they’re using PCR testing as the means for determining a case. What PCR testing does is it’s a molecular test and it tests for viral load. It doesn’t specifically test for COVID. You’d have to do a secondary test to know whether somebody had a COVID infection. What we do know from PCR testing is that people who had the illness will test positive at most testing levels for over two months after they’ve had the illness. We know that you can regulate what percentage of people are going to test positive depending on what’s called the cycle threshold. How much you have to amplify these tiny little bits of viral material that they get in these nasal swabs or saliva.
One of the aspects of our challenge, the most important, Hilda, is that the PCR test just like the vaccines against COVID is only acknowledged by the Food and Drug Administration as it may be effective. They have not been approved and licensed. They’ve just been authorized. Meaning, the FDA hasn’t taken in the position yet that these things work. Our view is that brings into play the Nuremberg Code. The Nuremberg Code is from 1947. It was specifically to address Nazi medical atrocities where people were made human subjects without their consent. The first principle of the Nuremberg Code is consent is absolutely essential, categorical, no ifs, ands, or buts.
Because COVID vaccines are all still experimental and investigational and have not been approved, we argue that you cannot deprive children of the opportunity to have in-school learning. If their parents won’t authorize it, you can’t do that. It’s against the law. The judge did not find it in our favor. We’ve got a decision from our preliminary injunctions, but we will just appeal this as far as we have to go because this is Black Letter Law. You cannot force somebody to participate in a medical scientific experiment and that is what the PCR tests are still.
Not only the vaccination, but the test is experimental.
Correct. It’s an experimental medical device that has been authorized by the FDA, but it has not been approved or licensed for detection of COVID and it cannot test for COVID. The important thing to point out is it’s subject to manipulation. If you wanted to test for COVID infection, you would have to take a positive or a negative test, and you’d have to do genetic sequencing. That would be more expensive and would take more time, but then you could get a definitive answer. The cases that we’ve been seeing that have been driving this pandemic for 2020 don’t test for COVID infection. They test for viral load.
Perhaps that’s why we’ve gotten many false positives or asymptomatic positives.
Let’s go back to the children. You said something about an entrance requirement in the LA school system and you talked about a QR code. Explain that to us a little bit, Mary.
The Los Angeles School District came out with a short video, which is with the superintendent of the LA schools and an executive from Microsoft Corporation. It’s a cartoon of a child and her father, and they are talking about how they want to reopen the schools, but the only way that they can reopen the schools safely in Los Angeles is if children have a phone and have a pass. The child or the parent has to check off every day, “I am healthy. I don’t have symptoms.” The child has to submit to PCR testing once a week and the child has to submit to a temperature. Once that’s green, they get to enter the school with their daily pass. They show their phone or their parents give them a printout with this QR code. I can’t even begin to tell you, Hilda, how much this would abend any notion of what it means to go to school.
Going back to what we said at the top though, if children are not the driving force behind the spread of this sickness, why all these extra measures?
These extra measures are coming in part from executives, mayors, and governors. Like in California, Governor Newsom, who thinks that there’s this huge pandemic risk. I would say the other reason, Hilda, is that children are our captive market for vaccines. I certainly see these passes as the stepping stone to compulsory vaccines. Children are at the lowest risk of COVID of any age group in the population and yet, in terms of forcing compulsory vaccination, they’re the most vulnerable group. Because that’s where the whole global population has an infrastructure that is ready to withhold schooling unless the child is vaccinated. It’s impossible for us to see this stepping stone about PCR testing and temperature taking without understanding that this is a stepping stone and it’s the bridge to compulsory COVID vaccination, which will look a lot, from everything we understand, like flu vaccination. The whole paradigm is for at least annual vaccination against Coronavirus’ new mutant strains.
Before we go too far into the future, let’s talk about tomorrow. If this QR code does get approved and this is a system LA schools are going to put into practice, won’t this give people peace of mind? Won’t the parents, teachers and children perhaps feel like, “Now it’s all okay?”
There’s going to be an awful lot of resistance to this, Hilda. People aren’t stupid. It’s going to be met with resistance. Would it give people a false sense of security? I don’t think so. They’re still going to have children be in masks, social distance and hand sanitizer. In essence, they’re not taking away any of the things that they have in place. They’re just adding this tracking system.
They’re not taking away the masking, social distance, hand sanitizer and all that?
As far as I know, Hilda, they’re not taking any of those things away. They’re saying that there’s still a risk. Even once people are vaccinated, they’re saying there’s still a risk of transmission. They’re not taking any of these things away anytime soon.
Let’s talk about the psychological ramifications. You said children are captive and they are vulnerable. We are training them to be afraid of each other.
There are tremendous psychological issues going on with our response to COVID. It makes people afraid of one another. People can’t recognize one another. In fact, it’s ironic. I watched that video from the LA school systems and the superintendent at the end says, “We look forward to seeing your children’s smiling faces.” I thought to myself, “You’re not going to see the smiling faces. These kids are going to have their masks on.” Masking, historically, is a kind of obedience. In some cultures, women essentially wear masks and it’s part of obedience to God, but it’s also obedience to authority. We are, in essence with masking, training people to be obedient and to muzzle their voice.
I can’t recognize people and understand what they’re saying. We’re separated from one another. The thing about children is their little brains are still forming. Their understanding of how to interact with one another is still pliable. If we put them in the setting in a way we’re doing experiments on them in terms of what the ramifications are going to be down the line for them as adults interacting with one another.
There’s no question about that. These children have lived through a tremendous trauma in 2020. We all understand that what happens to you during that childhood phase of development has a serious imprinting function on people for the rest of their lives. Even the adult population, for the most part, has been obedient around social distancing, masking, hand sanitizers, and so on, but there’s going to be more resistance among adults. If you can put these new norms in place in schools, you have bought the future. For corporations like Microsoft and government officials that want these kinds of restrictions in place, the schools are essential to them.
They need to put these new norms in place so that when these people become adults, they don’t think it’s strange to have to flash a QR code. As you probably know, Hilda, these norms are already in place in China. You can’t go into certain institutions without getting a green pass. You have to show that you have these health metrics. Also in China, they’re already doing something called social credit scores. If you don’t have a high enough score, you can be restricted access to all kinds of institutions. It’s a worrying parallel that we’re adopting these same kinds of high technocratic controls over people.
I noticed you mentioned Microsoft. What do they have to do with all this?
Apparently, the LA school system has partnered with Microsoft. This app is a computer program and Microsoft is doing a lot around what they call EdTech, Educational Technology. I would point out that also Bill Gates, the Founder of Microsoft, has been deeply involved in the whole public health response to COVID and he’s been talking about pandemics for decades. He’s been a leading proponent of this digital identification system, a prominent thing that he has been involved with the foundation and other institutions. Microsoft specifically called it ID2020.
It’s this idea that every person on the planet must have a unique digital identification. In some ways, you can see that that has some positives. You can track people to get them benefits and possibly to have health information that could be important for them. On the other hand, you can also see how that could be used for tyrannical purposes and for the deprivation of any sense of privacy or freedom. This is a new public–private partnership, which is a watchword of the World Economic Forum that has been promoting something they call the Great Reset. A big piece of the Great Reset after COVID is supposedly to remake the world and transform it in a better way. A huge part of that is technocratic controls.
When I heard of the Great Reset before, I thought it was something of this conspiracy theory, but it’s some plan on paper somewhere.
It’s not a conspiracy theory. The World Economic Forum is a group of billionaires and government leaders who meet every year in Davos, Switzerland and it’s run by a man named Klaus Schwab. Bill Gates has been a major player in the World Economic Forum as have most big corporations around the world. They have a plan called the Great Reset and they have a transformational map. Klaus Schwab has come out with a book called The Fourth Industrial Revolution, but also The Great Reset. It’s about digitizing the world essentially and there’s a lot of questions about them.
We’ll have to do another episode with you on that whole topic but for now, let’s get back to children. What is the likelihood that parents may be encouraged to vaccinate their children? How soon do you see that coming down the pike?
The major players like Moderna, Pfizer, Oxford, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson, all of the big manufacturers of the vaccines that are out there in the United States are already de-escalating. They’re already moving their clinical trials down from 17 to 12, and they’re talking about doing clinical trials in newborns and in pregnant women. Some pregnant women and some children have already been vaccinated with these vaccines. Especially the pregnant women, there’s been reported many miscarriages among them.
Even though children are at the lowest risk of COVID, there’s no strong evidence that they are infecting adults with whom they come into contact, nonetheless, they are the age group where there is already a profitable infrastructure in place for mass vaccination. I don’t think that the clinical trials will be done and these vaccines will be licensed for children and recommended in the United States by the fall of 2021. Although there are some people who think that could happen. I doubt that the vaccines will be a requirement for schools by the fall of 2021. I fully expect that by early 2022, there is going to be an enormous push to make COVID vaccines compulsory in states throughout the country.
We already see that there are distinctions between blue states and red states when it comes to vaccines and exemptions and when it comes to the state’s readiness to add new vaccines to the compulsory school schedule. My guess is we are going to see some distinctions. States like California and New York, blue states, which are pro-vaccine institutionally, we’re more likely to see them try to compel COVID vaccines early on by 2021 or 2022. Whereas, red states like Florida or South Dakota are going to lag behind and they’re going to try to push it off as long as possible.
You mentioned the Nuremberg Code. It seems to me that if people want to get vaccinated or they want their children vaccinated, that should be fine. If some of us don’t want that, that should be fine as well. We should have that freedom to choose.
I couldn’t agree with you more, Hilda. I’ve been fighting for that for more than twenty years after my own child was injured by a vaccine. People need to get truthful, complete information ahead of time, and then make independent choices about vaccination. People are not given truthful information and they don’t know what they’re getting into. COVID vaccines are no exception. That said, the law in the United States and in most countries permits governments to compel children to get vaccines against infectious diseases and other things for their attendance at school.
Some countries don’t allow compulsory vaccines, including the United Kingdom, Sweden, Iceland, and Japan. They say you have an absolute right to say no. Technically, in the United States, you have an absolute right to say no, but for instance, in New York state where I am, that would mean that you would be obliged to homeschool your child. Your child would not have access to any school in New York, public or private if you don’t vaccinate your child. That’s a pretty high bar and that makes it hard to exist.
In Children’s Health Defense where I work, we have lawsuits fighting to restore the religious exemption in New York. We have lawsuits that allege that the medical exemption restrictions are far too severe. We have lawsuits about the PCR testing in New York City Schools. The law around vaccines in the United States was essentially set over 100 years ago by the US Supreme Court. They did say that a government in times of emergency of a pandemic can impose universal vaccine requirements with a small penalty.
At the time, it was a $5 fine but that decision called Jacobson v. Massachusetts was then used to justify preemptive mandates before there was an outbreak of a disease for children in a school context. That’s been pull like a rubber band to the breaking point. It appears like the US Supreme Court in the context of this pandemic is going to require courts to look more searchingly at what the public health authorities say. Courts have been deferential to public health authorities. The legislatures and executive branches sadly have essentially been bought out by the pharmaceutical industry when it comes to mandating new childhood vaccines.
Not only that these may be required for kids to go to school in different states, but it’s likely that it may be required for adults soon to travel and whatnot. In other words, within the framework of a pandemic, it seems like a lot of rules are tossed out the window and freedoms as well.
That’s what has happened in 2020 around the globe, Hilda, and it’s troubling. Certainly, Children’s Health Defense believes that many of these lockdown measures around the world have been excessive. In part, they’ve been permitted to be excessive because executives have arrogated to themselves emergency powers and they haven’t had the benefit of administrative review or legislative review. One of the things that we would like to see and is starting to happen is that the legislators are starting to say, “Governor, you’ve gone too far. We’re not going to renew your emergency powers.”
We’re happy to see that because we do believe that we live in a democracy and we want to continue to live in a democracy, and we need the democratic process. We need to have different voices and different points of view interrogating these policies. We don’t know, Hilda, if all of these lockdown measures were effective. We don’t know whether we had to close schools or whether we had to lock down businesses. It’s not clear.
You said something about the information that it’s not all as accessible as we would like. Isn’t that the truth? In other words, we’re having you on, Mary, because you bring a different point of view. If I tune into mainstream media and the radio, all I hear is how good all these things have been. If we could only just hang in there, it’s a little while longer that we have to wear masks and now the vaccines are on the horizon and practically mandated.
We’re troubled that there has been astonishing censorship of people who are simply advocating for truthful information about vaccines and safety as we are. Children’s Health Defense Facebook page is censored regularly. Robert F. Kennedy Jr., our founder’s Instagram account was dismantled by Facebook. We are suing Facebook for their censorship and we’re arguing that they are working together with the government to censor us and that’s troubling.
One of the other things we talk about a lot is that as a country in the United States, we have a woefully inadequate adverse event reporting system for vaccines. When people are harmed by vaccines, often, doctors don’t report it. The people don’t know that there is a place to report it. Doctors often don’t recognize the harms. Our understanding is about 1 out of 100 genuine vaccine injuries is being reported. That’s based on a 2010 study that was funded by the federal Health and Human Services department.
In other words, most people when they have a vaccine injury think, “Something weird is happening to my body.” They don’t associate it with vaccination or they’re not aware that there is a reporting system.
Most people and sadly, most physicians are completely unaware of what can be repercussions and consequences of vaccines. They’re wide-ranging. It can be transverse myelitis, paralysis, blindness, tremors, seizures, neurological harm, and all kinds of things. Most physicians get a couple of hours of training on vaccines and they get no training on vaccine injury. We probably are living in an epidemic of vaccine injury. We have 54% of American children with some kind of chronic health condition and yet, most people don’t understand what a vaccine injury is.
Let’s say I’m a parent out there watching CNN and all the regular networks, and my only information is that we’re in a horrible pandemic and our children need to be protected and all of us need to be protected from COVID-19. What would you say to someone? Where would you tell them to start to find some information that can help them make some informed decisions about all of this?
I would welcome and urge your readers to come to the Children’s Health Defense website, ChildrensHealthDefense.org. We put out a daily online newspaper called The Defender and you can reach it through our website. Millions of people are reading it. We’re putting out accurate information every day. There are many other groups in the health freedom world like the Informed Consent Action Network, National Vaccine Information Center and Health Choice. You all have done some fantastic work. The Weston A. Price Foundation has put out fantastic information about vaccines and COVID. People do have to do their own homework. They’re not going to hear this on MSNBC and they’re not going to hear it on Fox. They’re not going to get accurate information about the pandemic and about remediation efforts in mainstream media.
I’m glad that we’re putting this out there. I want to follow up with a final question I ask every guest and it might be related to this topic or something else. If the reader could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend that they do?
I would ask that they make informed choices, whether it’s to do a PCR test or to take a COVID vaccine or take things that relate to COVID. For their health, they have to become informed. You can’t assume that your doctor is telling you the right thing or that mainstream media is telling you the right thing or even your acupuncturist or homeopath or naturopath is telling you the right thing. It’s sad, but on this issue that is affecting every person on the globe, I would urge them to do their own homework.
Mary, thank you for your time. I look forward to talking to you again sometime.
About Mary Holland
Mary Holland is a former Research Scholar and Director of the Graduate Lawyering Program at NYU School of Law. She has written several law review articles and blog posts on vaccine law and policy and is the co-author and co-editor of the books “Vaccine Epidemic” and “HPV Vaccine on Trial: Seeking Justice for a Generation Betrayed.”
She has testified to retain or expand vaccination exemptions in the California, West Virginia, Maine and Vermont legislatures. She has appeared in several documentaries and programs on vaccine issues. She is chair of the advisory board of Health Choice and a member of the advisory boards for the Elizabeth Birt Center for Autism Law and Advocacy, the Otto Specht School and Actionplay.
Educated at Harvard and Columbia Universities, Holland has worked in international public and private law. Prior to joining NYU, Holland worked for six years at major U.S. law firms, with three years based in Moscow, Russia. She also worked at a U.S. human rights organization as Director of its European Program.
After graduating law school, she clerked for a federal district court judge in the Southern District of New York. She has taught courses at Columbia Law School and has served as a consultant to the Aspen Institute Justice and Society Program.
- Mary Holland
- Children’s Health Defense
- Great Reset
- The Fourth Industrial Revolution
- The Great Reset Book
- Children’s Health Defense – Facebook page
- The Defender
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