Twenty-seven percent of Americans have sleep issues. What keeps us tossing and turning or waking up and having trouble falling back asleep? Today, Dylan Petkus of Optimal Circadian Health helps us analyze our sleep patterns and troubleshoot the issues.
What keeps us awake? For starters, anxiety, blue light that suppresses melatonin function, a poor sleep environment, and more.
To improve our sleep quality, Dylan talks about the importance of circadian rhythm, mitochondria, environment, and mindset. He offers concrete takeaways to help us rediscover the benefits of deep, restorative sleep.
Visit Dylan’s website: optimalcircadianhealth.com
Check out our sponsor Ancestral Supplements: ancestralsupplements.com
Give a gift to WAPF here: westonaprice.org
Write a note to WAPF:
The Weston A. Price Foundation PMB 106-380 4200 Wisconsin Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20016 USA
Listen to the podcast here
Why Can’t I Sleep?
Dylan Petkus of Optimal Circadian Health helps us troubleshoot our sleep.
This is episode 214. Our guest is Dylan Petkus. Dylan is a fourth-year student doctor and the Cofounder of Optimal Circadian Health. He has performed randomized clinical control trials on behaviors that optimize circadian rhythms for better daytime energy and more restorative sleep. He has studied and applied lessons learned on his sleep and that of his colleagues. All of this means he knows what he’s talking about firsthand, and he can give us concrete ideas on how to hack our sleep.
Many of us are exhausted and have trouble winding down or we wake up repeatedly throughout the night. Our conversation includes why the hours we go to bed before midnight do count as double when it comes to sleep quality. The four main things we can look at to overhaul our sleep patterns, the role sunlight plays in the sleep equation, and what Dylan does on the road to make his hotel room sleep-friendly.
This episode is brought to you in part by grass-fed tallow by Ancestral Supplements. Ancestral Supplements makes New Zealand sourced nose-to-tail organ meats, bone marrow, and tallow in simple convenient gelatin capsules. Consuming tallow supports fertility, hormone health, and provides nourishment for growth and development, which means healthy bones, teeth, gums, and skin. Visit AncestralSupplements.com to see what they can do for you. Ancestral Supplements, putting back in what the modern world has left out.
I don’t know if this is genius or craziness but I have an idea. Since it is the twentieth anniversary of the Weston A. Price Foundation, wouldn’t it be great to flood the WAPF office with thank you cards? I haven’t mentioned this to Sally but it would be cool to let the Weston A. Price Foundation and the president, Sally Fallon Morell, know exactly how grateful we are for the work that’s been done. Let’s flood the office with cards, what about it? Our address is on the website. Thank you in advance.
Welcome to Wise Traditions, Dylan.
How are you?
I’m doing great. We are going to dive in and I want you to start by telling us your story. You said that when you were in grad school, that’s when you started to have issues with your sleep. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
When I was in grad school, I was a pretty fit person and pretty smart, if I’d say so myself. Around the 2nd or 3rd year, it came to a point where when I would go to bed at 8:00 or 9:00, I would wake up at 11:00 and fall back to sleep. I wake up at 1:00 and fall back to sleep. I wake up at 3:00 AM or 4:00 AM and then I could not fall asleep. That’s when I would start my day.
I was turning into this daytime zombie because I was being a little bit of a vampire at night being awake often. It was hard to function throughout the day. I had to sneak off at 11:00 or 12:00 PM and take a nap. Don’t tell my advisor that in grad school. She thought I was working hard. When I started to research how to fix that, I came to learn about the importance of circadian rhythms, mitochondria and incorporating more of a different view.
When you go out and get sleep advice, you go to your doctor, they do a sleep study, in which they put a bunch of wires in your head and sleep in a bed and they tell you everything’s fine. You go online and you try a few tips and tricks or you take some supplements. Nothing works more than a week at a time. You bounce around until you find what works.
You didn’t know what was causing you to wake up every couple of hours.
The earlier you get to bed, the more you get that deep restorative sleep that allows your physiology to reset itself.
There were a few things I would try like a grounding sheet. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with those. You can connect yourself to the ground through a little copper wire and then you have this sheet that has silver threads in it. You’re conducting through the ground and you’re earthing yourself at night. I had success with that sometimes, but you build an arsenal of little hacks and then you find out what works best for you. The best hack for me, which wasn’t intentional, was moving down south. I was in Pennsylvania and the move to Florida helped me improve things.
I don’t know if our readers will be ready to do something dramatic. I do want to back up and have you give us the big picture of sleep. How did our ancestors sleep?
It’s a little bit of a misnomer when they talk about sleep because there’s this misconception about how people would go to bed and then wake up in the middle of the night and then go back to bed again. It’s like a biphasic sleep, which makes sense for people to be like, “That’s okay because that’s a common pattern of sleep.”
I’m not sure if it’s ever happened to you where you go to bed and you wake up at 3:00 AM and you’re up to 5:00 AM and you fall back to sleep and wake up at 7:00 AM. Although that is true to an extent that biphasic sleep patterns have happened in the past, they only started to happen since the Industrial Revolution started to take hold. This is when people went from an outdoor, agricultural hunter-gatherer lifestyle. They then have been forced to be in textile mills and all those things inside at odd hours and ended up with disrupted circadian rhythms. That’s what a lot of people think our ancestors used to sleep.
In reality, if you look at some hunter-gatherer tribes now, they have pretty distinct phases of sleep, especially during the summer. In the sunsets, they have their fire and they have some social gatherings and whatnot. They then all wander off to bed about an hour or two after sunset and wake up about an hour or two before sunrise. In the winter, that does change a little bit. It’s a little bit more common to have that biphasic sleep pattern in some hunter-gatherer or indigenous tribes but that’s only a few of them and not the norm.
It sounds like you’ve studied this quite a bit.
Like the Weston A. Price perspective, what have things used to be and not using like, “What are people doing now?” What were we doing 200, 300 years ago? What were we doing 2,000, 3,000 years ago? What have we evolved over time to settle into aligning our activities when the sun is up and when the sun is down? It’s like getting a good picture of how you’re supposed to work with this circadian rhythm.
It makes so much sense. I’ve aligned more with nature’s rhythm. I get up with the sunrise and I go to bed after sundown way earlier than I ever used to. It’s phenomenal how profound your sleep can be when you adapt to nature’s circadian rhythm. Is that what you’ve done?
Yes. We go to bed around 8:00 or 8:30. That’s about an hour after the sunsets. That’s about the time we’ll go to bed and maybe fall asleep about 30 to 40 minutes after that. It is important to get to bed earlier. There’s this old saying that has a lot of truth to it, which is that all the hours of sleep you get before midnight count double in terms of your sleep quality.
The big reason behind that is when you get to bed earlier, you have more exposure to melatonin, which is an awesome hormone and chemical. You also allow your body to better organize and choose what sleep is going to get because not all sleep is the same. The earlier you get to bed, you get more of that deep restorative sleep. That allows your physiology to reset itself. Later in sleep, you allow more time for REM sleep, which allows for all the neurons rewiring themselves to be as efficient as possible.
I have so many questions I want to ask you right now. One that crosses my mind is how do you even know if you’re in the dream cycle or if you’re in the deepest stage of sleep? Do you recommend sleep trackers?
It’s tough. The concept is that you have this gold standard, which means it’s the one thing you want to compare against. It’s heavily used research in research and that’s PSG or polysomnography. Sleep trackers don’t compare well to that. The PSG is able to tell you, “You’re in stages 1, 2, 3, or you’re in REM sleep.” Whereas the sleep trackers do a pretty poor job.
For the Oura Ring, which is probably one of the fancier ones, their first-generation one, which doesn’t track the HRV, had a 48% agreeance with being awake. Not to stay asleep but just being awake. From there, it’s a 60% agreeance with being in the correct stage, which is why you have a lot of sleep trackers that say you’re either in deep sleep or light sleep. They then make some calculations or guess that you’re in REM sleep.
In terms of staging the sleep, I would say sleep trackers are not great. They’re awful at that. The devil’s advocate is what would you do with that data? What do 60 more minutes of REM sleep mean to you? It’s not like something super actionable for people. It’s like, “I got 90 minutes of delta wave.” For the actual sleep quality, it’s becoming a lot more attractive to simply use the heart rate variability, the HRV. If there’s a certain pattern of your HRV throughout the night, which doesn’t always correlate with your sleep stage, HRV does correlate to how you feel and how your function is the next day.
It’s taking a new perspective. It’s not trying to mimic this gold standard, which is an unrealistic expectation. It’s trying to find a new biometric to accomplish that. Sleep trackers that measure HRV would then be superior in my eyes. There’s the issue with are the sleep trackers interfering with sleep themselves either through some wireless communication? Even anxiety promoting is something common that sleep trackers can do.
For me, I did get the Oura Ring. I liked it because it helped me make sleep a priority. Suddenly, I wanted to get a higher sleep score. I wanted it to say, “You slept like a bear. You’re ready for anything the next day.” Right now, I’m not using it. When I did, it helped me compete with myself. In that sense, it was helpful. Even though the stats might not have been spot on, it was an aid to that. If it helps you, great. If you find that it stresses you out, you might have to go about it a different way.
People aren’t going to try to actively change what they’re not tracking. That’s their big reason why the whole biohacking quantified self thing is popular. If you get a score of 92, you’re like, “Can I push it to 95?” It’s a game you play.
This conversation is important, Dylan, because people are exhausted. This is one reason Starbucks is popular. It’s not just that they have a coffee shop on every corner but it’s that the people want it because they’re looking for a boost because they’re fatigued and they’re trying to push through.
The statistics are 90% of all people on this earth experience insomnia for more than one week at some point in their life. If you look at everyone across all age groups, 20% to 25% of all people have sleep issues in some way or form where they’re taking too long to fall asleep, waking up multiple times a night, waking up too early, or having that excessive daytime fatigue. It’s a big problem.
The issue is when you’re younger, you say, “Whatever, I can get a latte in Starbucks.” As you age, people start to feel it more. They’ve gone through college, they’ve had kids, which is not also great for sleep, and then it catches up with them in a way. It’s something you don’t want to be behind the eight ball on it in a way.
Let’s talk with them about some short-term things, things that can give some relief, but then also some long-term solutions or tips that might be helpful to those people we’re talking to.
The framework we have is that there are four main things that affect how well you’re going to sleep. It’s circadian rhythms, your mitochondria, your environment, and your mindset. Of those four, the two we find if you do these things, you can sleep better, are your mindset and your circadian rhythm. For the circadian rhythm, it’s pretty easy. You have to get natural light in the morning. The first thing is the best.
You also want to get a little bit throughout the day to help boost your rhythm and help kick off your natural production of melatonin. On the flip side, the dark side of that, as soon as that sunsets, you want to put something like blue blockers, which are blue light blocking glasses on because any artificial blue light after sunset is going to suppress your melatonin, which is not going to be good for sleep quality.
It’s important for people to learn about this light. Many people reading work indoors all day long or they’re inside with their kids and they’re not getting that sunlight. The sunlight gives us messages about what time of day it is. There are receptors in our eyes that send messages to the brain about how much melatonin to produce and when to release it.
You have proteins in your eyes that are specifically designed to set your circadian rhythm. If you even look at the functional anatomy of the eye, the first part of the eye that light hits, it doesn’t have to do with vision. It has to do with your circadian rhythms. People always think, “The eye is designed backward,” but it’s our perspective on the eye that is backward. It’s more of a clock as opposed to a camera. When the light comes in the first morning, it activates something called melanopsin, which is your blue light sensor. When melanopsin is activated, that will start to kick off all sorts of hormonal and neurochemical cascades in your brain like your adrenal glands and other neuroendocrine tissues.
If I understand you correctly, you’re saying that this light is important not only for sleep but for glandular function overall.
Yes. It’s always funny when I’m on social media or something and then there’s someone talking about how to balance your hormones. They talk about bioidentical hormones. I’m like, “We got to talk about the major thing that is controlling our hormones, it’s the first light that you see.” If you’re someone who’s swimming in an artificially lit pool at 5:00 AM because you’re a triathlete and that’s what you do, you’re going to get a jumpstart on your hormone production. That’s going to wear and tear it down over time because it’s being over-activated.
Do you know any triathletes that are doing that? Are you speaking from experience?
My sister, I always channel her through that. In triathlons, you’ve got to do a lot of training in volume. In today’s modern world, people are trying to fit it in any way they can around their jobs and other obligations.
I imagine you’ve warned her about this.
Let’s talk next about the mitochondria. That was another area that we need to pay attention to.
90% of all people on this earth experience insomnia for more than one week at some point in their life.
Mitochondrial health is more like slow-burning coal that you always want to make sure it’s on. It’s like the pilot light in the oven because once that thing goes out, you’re in deep doo-doo. You want to make sure you’re supporting the mitochondria and supplying them with wavelengths of light, which would be from the sun. It’s a little bit of an interesting concept. Infrared and UV light, in particular, help out with your mitochondrial function.
As you may know, infrared and red light allows your mitochondria to make more energy independent of anything. That single factor can boost your production of ATP, which is that energy currency by itself. On top of that, when you get UV light exposure, you engage this mechanism where you cause a little bit of oxidative stress. As pushing back to that, your mitochondria will produce melatonin in response to that oxidative stress. Does that make sense?
Yes. It reminds me of how when you work out, some people say you’re causing little tears in the muscle fiber, which helps to make you stronger in the long run.
It’s a hormetic effect.
That makes sense to me. Also, this mitochondrial bit is important. Some scientists are starting to say that all disease has its root in mitochondrial dysfunction.
When you look at the people who have relatively rare mitochondrial diseases, they serve as a good functioning and model of understanding how mitochondria affect the disease. There are all these sets of diseases. There’s red ragged muscle disease, which is when people have dysfunctional mitochondria and their muscles look like they’re made out of taffy or something. They can’t function well and they don’t have a good tone.
There’s even one where it defects the mitochondria in your eye and you go blind at a young age. These people have that separate disease but they also have poor sleep because the mitochondria are necessary to help allow you to get to sleep and stay asleep. For all the other disease processes, when you look at people with diabetes and obesity especially, they have those propensities to have something called high mitochondrial heteroplasmy rates. To keep things simple, it means the majority of your mitochondria are starting to fall apart.
Are you saying that if someone has diabetes or obesity that getting exposure to more of the wavelengths of light from the sun could make a difference in their health?
Yes. The infrared and UV will be beneficial in these scenarios because you have failing mitochondria that need a little bit of an extra boost. That red in infrared light is going to provide that little bit of an extra boost.
Coming up, Dylan talks about how anxiety keeps a lot of us tossing and turning all night. He offers suggestions for how to combat this common sleep complaint.
This episode is brought to you in part by grass-fed tallow by ancestral supplements. According to Cabeza de Vaca, the Native Americans are the people with the most well-formed bodies and of the greatest vitality and capacity. What foods produced such fine physical bodies, well-formed, strong resistant to disease, and cavity-free? All were based on nose-to-tail dining and fat. They hunted the older animals because they had built up a thick slab of fat along the back.
Our DNA evolved with the nourishment of the liver, heart, kidney, pancreas, spleen, etc., and a whole lot of fat. The fat was always saved sometimes by rendering, stored in the punch, bladder, large intestine, and consumed with dried or smoked meats or pemmican. Used in this way, fat contributed almost 80% of total calories in the diets of the Northern Indians. Most prized was the internal kidney fat of ruminant animals.
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I have a fun idea. It’s a secret too. Since it is the twentieth anniversary of the Weston A. Price Foundation, wouldn’t it be great to go old school and swamp the office with thank you cards, birthday cards, or anniversary cards? They’re all good. I haven’t breathed a word of this to Sally. It would be cool and wonderful to let the Weston Price Foundation and the president, Sally Fallon Morell, know how grateful we are for the work that’s been done.
Let’s flood the office with cards. Our address is on the website. If you don’t have time to write a note, another way to show your thanks is to click on the donate button on the website and give a gift of $20 in honor of this anniversary. It’s an easy way to thank the foundation and to keep the work going. Thanks in advance.
Let’s pivot for a second and talk about mindset. I’m surprised that you said that this is one of the most important pieces to improve our sleep. Talk to me about that.
I think of myself as a hard-charging science guy. Anything that has to do with psychology is a bunch of woo-woo but it’s not. Somewhere between 70% and 90% of all sleep complaints are rooted in anxiety. People lay down and they’re starting to think, “I have that report due tomorrow. I have to do this at work. I can’t believe Michelle said that to me in the office room. I should’ve said that.” You enter this ruminating slippery slope and people can’t turn that off. That starts to build this association between classical conditioning where they had the dogs and you ring a bell with food in front of them. Eventually, you take the food away and you ring the bell and the dogs are still salivating.
When you do that classical conditioning, you start to create anxiety around being in bed. Since you’re anxious in bed all the time, even if you’re not bringing anxiety into the bedroom, you are training your brain to generate anxious thoughts once you get in bed. That’s one of the biggest reasons why a lot of people have trouble falling asleep. It even would wake them up because once you start to have those thoughts, you start to crank up the intensity of your amygdala, which is the fear hyper-arousal, hyper-vigilant part of your brain. Especially, people who are chronic insomniacs, they’ll have an amygdala that won’t turn off and keeps waking them up at night like clockwork.
Some people associate lying in bed with this anxiety or it starts coming up because all day long, if they have a sense of anxiety, they can simply turn to a social media platform, turn to work, or making dinner. They busy themselves and they don’t have time to think. The only time they have to think is when they’re lying still in bed. How do we get out of that habit and how do we change our mindset so we don’t associate sleep with anxiety?
There are many ways. One of the biggest ways is to leave the cell phone out of the bedroom. Let’s say you’re in a traffic jam and instead of being part of traffic, what do people do? They get their cell phones, they’re scrolling through Instagram, hopefully on my Instagram, and they’re deferring any internal mental movement.
When you get to bed, you have that issue. The stats are that it’s around 40%, 50% of all Americans are using their phone in the minutes up until sleep. Here’s the crazy thing, 79% of Millennials look at their phone at least once between bedtime and waking hours. That’s in the middle of the night. Having this device is not beneficial, helpful, or conducive to a night of sleep because you have anxiety around using the device. That device is emitting blue light and it also is jam-packed with radio frequencies and electric and magnetic fields that are also counteracting all the physiological goodness that you need for sleep.
Rule number one I always have before giving people a sleep device is to have the cell phone away from your bed on airplane mode. If you use it as an alarm clock, that’s cool. Make it somewhere where it’s not within arm’s reach. You just need to be able to hear it. The second big thing is you need to break that association between anxious thoughts and your bed by ensuring that you only go to bed when you’re tired. It’s called cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia to retrain your brain. It has a few hiccups if you don’t understand circadian rhythms and how blue light can affect your physiology.
The big caveat that we tell people is, yes, don’t go into your bedroom until you’re tired but also don’t keep watching TV until 11:00 PM and blasting yourself with blue light or being on the computer until then. Try to do something that is using lights that aren’t stimulating. You can use red light bulbs. You can even get a red headlamp. That’s what we have. Do things like your grandmother would have done before she was going to bed, writing, reading, talking to your significant other. Sometimes we get a red laser and have our cat go around in circles or anything that is not going to be something psychologically stimulating or stimulating your circadian rhythm through blue lights.
You’re saying all these things and I’m like, “Yes.” It’s not foreign to me but I bet to some people, they’re like, “Is he kidding? The first thing I do when I wake up in the morning is to look at the phone. The last thing I do is to look at the phone.” Once they’re in bed and before they wake up, they’re like, “I got to send one more text.” I’m sure this sounds foreign to some people.
That brings it to the next point. Molly and I, my fiancé and also the cofounder of Optimal Circadian Health, were thinking of ways to assess people’s use of cell phones. There’s a set of four questions that you would ask a patient about their use of alcohol and they’re shockingly similar to how you would help most people respond about their cell phone use.
The questions are, could you quit using your phone tomorrow if you could? Most people would say no. Are other people annoyed by your cell phone use? Have you ever eaten dinner with someone who’s 20 or 30 years older than you? The answer is yes. Do you feel guilty about your cell phone use? I feel most people will probably say no to that and some people might. The last one is, do you drink alcohol or use your phone within 30 minutes of waking up? If you say yes to one of those, that would indicate that you have an addiction to whatever that thing is.
That is mind-blowing. That parallel is incredible. You came up with it because you were thinking, “How can we assess people’s cell phone use?” You realize these questions were also applicable to cell phone use.
The cell phone, inside your brain during a functional MRI scan, is not that different from any drug or alcoholic beverage. It stimulates. Shockingly, similar neural pathways and has the same response and behavior.
Do you think if we set our cell phones aside an hour or two before bed and we got rid of the blue light that could interfere and did some things the old-fashioned way, write a letter or talk to somebody in person, that would change our anxiety-filled time in bed?
Have things in place to reduce anxiety and stress during the day to make sure you don’t have an avalanche of anxiety at night.
It would. For a lot of people, that’s not enough. I always like to think of anxiety as having a snowball at the top of a mountain. That thing may start small but if you let it roll down and keep going down, by the end of that mountain, it’s going to be the size of Boulder, Colorado. What I’m trying to say is that you need to have things in place to reduce anxiety and stress during the day to make sure you don’t have that avalanche of anxiety at night. When they study people who do transcendental meditation or even mindfulness meditation, they will sleep better at night and have more melatonin at night even though they’re meditating at the beginning of the day because they have less anxiety being triggered and built up throughout the day.
Meditation is a time to release your anxieties, observe your thoughts, and connect with your breathing. It does some cleansing on a deep, spiritual, but also the mental level.
Big time. That’s when you get this shift in the metabolic activity of certain areas of your brain. You also get this synchronization of a lot of the neurons. I’m sure you’re familiar with brainwaves. In the beta state, which is around 15 to 30 hertz, you’re on high alert and anxious. Your boss emailed you that they need the project in two hours. That’s the beta state.
As you start to slow down and synchronize things more, you get into this more alpha state. You’re relaxed. Things are slowing down. You’re calm, cool, and collected. That transition to slower brainwaves and different shifts in the metabolic brain activity that you get with meditation. It’s eerily similar to what you see when someone is laying down in bed, going into the first light stage asleep, and then continuing to go deeper into the deeper stages of sleep. It mimics it in that way.
I have a friend who listens to meditation tapes as she’s falling asleep, some relaxing audio. We can listen to something that can help us get in that state as we’re falling asleep too, perhaps.
Certainly, the brainwave and the binaural beats are great at inducing that synchronization of the neuronal firing going from beta to alpha and then to theta to delta. As far as maintaining that, that’s where it gets a little bit tricky. They are good for helping you relax and get into that sleep.
That leads to this fourth bit you were talking about, the environment.
The environment is strongly related to the circadian rhythm aspect because the one thing that a lot of people need to improve in their bedroom is the light environment. In the modern bedroom, it has a TV, an alarm clock, someone’s charging their cell phone, at least one. You have electronics here and there that have lights on them. Each one of those electronic devices, each one of those lights, has the potential to have you that circadian rhythm disrupting blue light. It’s to the point where, in the literature, as low as around ten lux and less. Do you know that little light on the side of your laptop when you’re charging it?
That’s how intense that light is. That light is enough to cause disruption, melatonin, and also metabolic parameters the next morning.
It’s funny that you say that because I was thinking about how when I get into a hotel room, I go around unplugging lamps, blocking the little light on the TV in the room. Part of me thinks, “Maybe it’s not that important.” From what you’re saying, it is.
Every little thing counts. The primary culprit in hotel rooms and people’s bedrooms is the window. Nowadays, we have all those high-intensity streetlights and headlights, which can be a nightmare. We were at some hotels because we were interviewing for residency, our next step in our medical training. We closed the windows and we put towels down over the top of it to make sure no extra light was coming in. We even had some like aluminum foil. We unplugged all the electronics. The final touch is to put some black painter’s tape on the little blinking green lights on the fire alarm and then you’re set. I even rolled up a piece of tissue paper and I put it into the peephole of the door to the hallway.
Good for you. We’ve just scratched the surface of all the ways in which we can work on improving our sleep. There were other questions, Dylan, I wanted to ask you. We might have to do a part two at some time because there’s much to go into here, isn’t there?
There are loads.
In the meantime, until we get you back, let me ask you the question I often ask at the end with a little twist. If the reader could do only one thing to improve their health, what is the main thing you would tell him to do right off the bat?
Shift your understanding of what builds health in terms of all the different inputs that you have to your body and understand that you need to have a higher level of understanding beyond diet and exercise. You need to start thinking about, “What is the light doing to me? What is the temperature doing to me? What is my air quality doing to me?” Expand your horizon.
You’ve done that for us, Dylan. Thank you so much for your time.
Our guest was Dylan Petkus. Check out his website, OptimalCircadianHealth.com, for more ideas on improved health and sleep. You can find me at HolisticHilda.com. Thanks for reading, everybody. See you next time.
On behalf of the Weston A. Price Foundation, thanks for reading. We have many free resources to support you on your health journey. Visit WestonAPrice.org to find podcasts, articles, videos, and more. You can also find a local chapter near you for help in finding sources of great food. We invite you to support the foundation’s mission of education, research, and activism by becoming a member. Thanks again and take care.
Wise Traditions is a project of the Weston A. Price Foundation for wise traditions in food, farming, and the healing arts. The content on this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional. It is not intended to be, nor does it constitute healthcare or medical advice.
About Dylan Petkus
Dylan Petkus, MD, MPH, MS is a transformation coach. He also holds a Master’s in Public Health, a Master’s in Exercise Physiology, Reproductive Endocrinology, Doctor of Medicine, and has published peer-reviewed papers.
His pursuit of the methods to overcome fatigue started with himself and have been refined in his years of working with others. Above all else, his passion is to teach others scientific principles in alignment with Nature, allowing the body to rejuvenate so people can create the EXACT life they deserve.
Dylan is known for being able to break down complex science into simple processes.🖨️ Print post