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Curiosity led a biostatistician down an unusual path. Intrigued by the concept that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has not been isolated ever, our guest began inquiring of health departments around the world: Do you have evidence of an isolated virus? To date, over 100 institutions from all over the globe have responded…and there has been no evidence in sight of SARS-CoV-2.
Christine Massey, a former biostatistician for cancer researchers, today discusses her research on the concept of viruses (and this “virus” in particular) and what she’s learned through hundreds of FOIA requests (freedom of information act) from health departments all over the world.
She goes over how the cultures or samples used to “isolate the virus” are actually interfering with the process. She exposes the flaws in this methodology and the problem with PCR testing. She also explains why talk of “variants” is essentially nonsense.
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Episode Transcript
Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda
Curiosity led a biostatistician down an unusual path, intrigued by the concept that the SARS-CoV-2 virus has not been isolated ever. Our guests started to dig deep and inquire about health departments around the world. Using the power of the Freedom of Information Act and requests, she asked, “Do you have evidence of an isolated virus?” Over 100 institutions worldwide have responded and there has been no evidence insight of SARS-CoV-2.
This is episode 339 and our guest is Christine Massey. She is a former biostatistician for cancer researchers and for years, she has been a passionate advocate for safe drinking water. Once COVID appeared on the worldwide screen, she shifted her focus and began to seek answers to the question about the isolation, purification and existence of SARS-CoV-2.
In this episode, she discusses her research on the concept of viruses and this “virus” in particular. She tells us what she’s learned through hundreds of FOIA requests. That’s the Freedom of Information Act from health departments all over the world. She discusses how the CDC recognizes that viruses don’t get isolated in virology without a cell culture for food.
She uncovers why the cultures or samples are interfering with the process. These cultures are often contaminated with monkey kidney cells, fetal bovine serum and more. She exposes the flaws in this methodology. She also goes over how PCR tests don’t test for viruses and why talk a variance is essentially nonsense.
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It’s not the case that every single person is purposely going along with fraud. Most people just believe the same as everyone else.
Our guest is Christine Massey. Visit her website FluorideFreePeel.ca and check out the FOIA request information. You can find me at HolisticHilda.com. For a review from Apple Podcasts. Watcher2323 has this to say, “Great show. I’ve learned a lot from these episodes.” Watcher, I appreciate your succinct way with words. If you’d like to leave us a review, you may go to Apple Podcasts. Click on the ratings and reviews. Give us a bunch of stars and tell us what you think of the show. It helps people know that this show is worth checking out. Thank you so much for reading. Stay well. Hasta Pronto.
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Welcome to the show, Christine.
Hilda, thank you so much for having me.
We’re so intrigued by this topic of the virus and its isolation. Tell us about your freedom of information requests that you pose to the CDC and what their response was.
This one was done by my colleague in New Zealand, Michael. We have five responses from the CDC. This is the March 1st, 2021 response. What happened was Michael used the same wording that I used in my requests. He was asking for any record describing isolation, in other words, purification of this alleged virus from a patient sample without mixing in anything genetic.
I’m not talking about culturing something, PCR tests or sequencing something. I’m talking about purifying this alleged virus. He had some back and forth with them. On page two, there are some interesting comments. I’ll read a quote from the bottom of page three. “The definition of isolation provided in the group request is outside of what is possible in virology, as viruses need cells to replicate and cells require liquid food. However, the SARS-CoV-2 virus may be isolated from a human clinical specimen by culturing in cell culture, which is the definition of isolation used in microbiology.”
Help us understand that.
Michael had asked for records where they describe separating this alleged virus from everything else in a patient sample. The CDC is saying that’s never done in virology. They’re not saying that they don’t have records for SARS-CoV-2, which is the name of the alleged COVID-19 virus but they’re telling us in black and white that is never, ever done in virology.
We had learned that already. We had heard this from doctors, Cowan and Kaufman, other people and any alleged virus isolation paper that we had ever seen. We had it from the CDC saying that viruses do not get purified. It does not happen. What a virologist means by isolating something is to culture a specimen. That’s the patient sample. Dr. Cowan would say snot or something along those lines but something from the patient, taking note of the patient and culturing it in cell culture.
Your readers probably heard about this a few times. It’s so strange what they do. For the late people that are new to this, it’s almost unbelievable. They take a patient sample and then they put it in a cell line. With COVID-19, what they typically use is Vero cells and that’s a name for kidney cells from an African green monkey. They’ve got cells from a monkey and the rationale that they give is that they need to give the alleged virus or such an imaginary virus a chance to replicate in cells.
According to virus theory, viruses have to have cells to grow. They don’t grow on their own. They need cells. For whatever reason, they use monkey cells. They don’t use human cells, which would be more logical thing to do at least. You’re still wouldn’t be purifying something but at least you’d be doing something a little more logical.
The monkey cells need a source of nutrition, so they also add fetal bovine serum. It is serum from a baby cow. They add that and then they also add some toxic drugs, antibiotics and antifungals. The reason for that is that they don’t want these other things growing in the mixture and making things more complicated.
It sounds like some stew, the strange concoction that they’re putting together and then they’re trying to say, “This one ingredient in here is making us sick.” Let’s say it was a beef stew. How can you possibly distinguish that one ingredient from the beef, tribe, parsley and time? It’s near impossible.
What’s even more ridiculous is they haven’t identified any specific thing. They’ve done the exact opposite of what you would need to do. If you suspect that there’s a new tiny little thing in humans, your first step should be to try to find it. That would be a logical person would want to do. You’d want to find that thing.
It’s almost like they’re muddying the waters instead of making them more clear.
Instead of identifying something in the sample, they contaminate the sample with all sorts of other things.
What’s wild to me is I’ve looked over a lot of your materials on your website and you have requested from at least 105 institutions this very simple information. “Can you show me proof that you have isolated or purified this virus?” You’ve requested this from the CDC, some departments of health from Canada and Australia. You’ve come up empty.
It’s not just myself. There’s a lot of other people who’ve been submitting these requests. Every week, I’m getting at least 1 or 2 new ones usually. People around the world are sending them in. They put up a new one from Lithuania. There are lots of people helping at this point. If any of your readers would like to help, there’s a template on my website where they can use the same wording that I use. I give some tips on how to go about doing it. Anybody can submit a freedom of information request in the US or at least with the requests to the CDC. There’s no cost.
In Canada, we have fees for submitting the request but there’s no cost for the CDC. You can do it through email. That’s how I do it. We’re up to 121 different institutions that we have responses from. I believe we’re at 25 individual countries that they’re coming from. Plus, we also have institutions that cover more than one country. For example, Britain with many institutions from the UK and then we have the European Centre for Disease Control or whatever it’s exactly called.
Why did you start to look into all of this in the first place?
What happened in 2020 was I was not buying into the official story because it wasn’t making any sense and I also have a history of opposing water fluoridation, which is another public health issue. I knew from my years of experience doing that you can’t take anything that the public health community says at face value. I’m not saying that I’m not telling you the truth but it would be a big mistake to take something for granted.
We have to get to the heart of the matter and educate the public so that they’re no longer vulnerable to these lies.
I was trying to get a better understanding like a lot of other people and then I heard that PCR tests were being used. I had heard from the investigative reporter, John Rappoport, over the years that those tests are very problematic. While I was looking for that information, I eventually came across Dr. Andrew Kaufman, who was so helpful. He was my main inspiration for starting the requests because he did this one presentation that was so brilliantly clear. He was explaining that this alleged virus had never been isolated and he had a section where he talked about if it existed, how they could isolate it.
I’ll use the word purification at times too to mean the same thing and then you show what they do. I watched that section over and over again when I was working on my first request to make sure I understood what was going on. I looked at some of the papers to these so-called isolation papers that have been published.
Dr. Kaufman and I later discovered Dr. Cowan. There’s quite a few professional speaking out. They were saying these things but if you’re on social media, discussing this or sharing their videos, get all sorts of pushback. People telling you you’re crazy. These men are crazy. They have said all kinds of things about Dr. Kaufman and Dr. Cowan.
I thought, “I had done freedom of information in the past on the fluoride issue.” I had done requests before to see if the institutions that promote water fluoridation tell us it’s safe and effective for everyone to find out if they had any studies to show that fluoride exposure is safe during pregnancy with respect to their children’s IQ and ADHD symptoms. They didn’t have any studies to show that it’s safe.
There’s all this arguing going on over whether Dr. Kaufman, Dr. Cowan and others are telling the truth. The average person does not have the time or energy. They’re not going to go looking for all these published papers and try to read them for themselves. I thought, “I’ll do a freedom of information request to Health Canada. If they don’t have any records, then that will be some evidence to show that these gentlemen are telling us the truth and they’re correct. If it turns out that they’re not correct and there is a study, then we will stand corrected.” That was how that started.
I want to back up to something you said. Some of the responses say that the virus has been isolated and they give you a link. What do you find out when you dig deeper and click on that link?
There are lots of different links given by different institutions. For example, one of the things that we often get is the link to the CDC study. It’s by Jennifer Harcourt and some other people. It’s also the study that you’ll find cited on the CDC webpage where they talk about having isolated the imaginary virus. It’s like all the other studies that they do these bizarre procedures where they take the sample. They put it with the monkey cells, add fetal bovine serum and the toxic drugs, wait a few days and watch what happens to the monkey cells.
Doctors Kaufman and Cowan always say they start from placing the cells because they give the fetal bovine serum to feed the monkey cells but they always lower it. They watch the monkey cells and then when the monkey cells suffer or they call it cytopathic effects, that’s what they use to conclude that the virus is present, they have isolated it and it’s causing disease. They sometimes do animal studies too but they’re claiming they have identified the virus.
Correct me if I’m wrong but Dr. Stephen Lanka did this virus isolation purification process with the monkey kidney cells and all the things you mentioned but without inserting an alleged virus and he got the same result, which to me implies the “virus” had nothing to do with the result or the sickness.
What he showed was that the conclusions for virologists’ draw are not reasonable. On the surface, any rational person can see it’s not reasonable because there’d be so many other factors. You can’t draw a conclusion. You should be doing a randomized controlled experiment with a purified virus if you want to see what the alleged virus does but they don’t have a purified virus.
They do these procedures that don’t prove anything. What Dr. Lanka did was helpful to make that more obvious and show. “Just because you see these specific cytopathic of facts, it’s not proof of a virus.” You haven’t drawn a scientific conclusion. He’s disproven it by showing you can get those same effects without an alleged virus.
How is it that all of these health institutions are operating as if this weren’t a myth? They’re operating as if the virus has been isolated. Maybe they haven’t been looking at the studies in depth. Are they based on a lie? Why is there certitude from these health departments all over the world if this is not the truth?
I can’t say for certain what their motivations are or what exactly is going on. What I do know is like many of the lower-level institutions, sometimes they usually say, “We don’t culture the virus.” It’s because they realized that’s typically what’s done in virology. They’ll say, “We don’t do those things or viruses ourselves. We’re relying on information from the higher-up institutions.”
For example, an institution maybe at the municipal level or in Ontario, where I live, they’ll say they’re getting their information from Public Health Ontario, which is the institution that has the mandate to provide scientific input on health issues to the public health community. We also have a response from Public Health Ontario and they don’t have any records either. It’s not the case that every single person is purposely going along with fraud. There’s no way.
Most people believe, the same as everyone else, what they’re being told, what they hear from the news, their superiors, Public Health Ontario or whatever institution it is that they look to. This is fantastic. There are people like Dr. Stephen Lanka and there’s this first group in Australia or New Zealand that was exposing the whole HIV because this isn’t specific just to COVID-19. This is virology in general.
There have been people who’ve known for decades of these problems not necessarily speaking out about all viruses but Dr. Lanka has been and there have been people who have known for years. A lot of people are aware because of AIDS. They realized that there’s a virus called HIV that causes AIDS that has never been shown to be true.
Let’s pause for a second and let that sink in. In other words, it’s not just that the SARS-CoV-2 hasn’t been isolated, purified or identified but a number of viruses, if not all of the viruses of the past, Ebola, Zika or even polio. This is shocking. If this is the case, what have people got sick from, Christine? We’re not saying that people aren’t getting sick.
It’s the cause that’s in question. There can be many different causes even in one person. When a person gets sick, there can be multiple factors. There can be things that happened in their history, injuries, nutritional issues. They’ve been exposed to toxins or pollutants in their air. It can be coming from many different sources. There can also be stressful and emotional issues. There are so many factors that can be involved even in one person and let alone all these so-called cases. Many of them aren’t even sick but of the people who are sick, there can be so many reasons.
If you look, say, for example, Wuhan, where this supposedly all got started, they have had horrific air pollution so bad for years. I’ve seen articles going back that people were going out on the streets in Wuhan protesting because their air pollution is so bad there. It has to be bad for someone to protest in China because they’re putting their life on the line to do that. It’s bad. They had also turned on 5G in Wuhan. I verified that myself. I was able to find it on their website for the region.
I believe in late-2019, China had mandated vaccines. John Rappoport, the investigative reporter, has reported on the fact that Wuhan is the world headquarters for the trafficking of fentanyl, which is the opioid, which causes respiratory problems. To jump to the conclusion that there are people with severe respiratory illness, that it has something to do with the virus is completely irrational. It’s not scientific or even reasonable.
I wanted to ask you to give us another example of a response that you got from a health department. I understand that even the division that Fauci used to work in, the NIAID at NIH, responded to one of your FOI requests.
We have two communications from them but I’ll tell you about the freedom of information response. First, they give us links and cited various papers and websites but there was nothing there that described the purification of an alleged virus. I don’t bother disputing the FOIs too much because I found it mostly it’s a waste of time and energy with the COVID-19, but I did write back and this is exactly what I said. I didn’t want because I always tell in my request, “I’m not looking for studies where they cultured something, did PCR tests or sequence something.” They stuck to their guns. They made a formal appeal to their designated person or body there that handles appeals. They explained the situation to her and stuck to their position.
They also say it’s a CDC issue. I don’t know officially what the mandates are for these organizations but you would think an organization with the name National Institute of Allergies and Infectious Disease would want to verify that an alleged virus exists but apparently not. They pass the buck to the CDC. We have five responses from the CDC and I know at least there’s one more that I could upload that I haven’t had the chance to do on the website.
Isn’t it a little bit arrogant to be like me, Dr. Stephen Lanka, Dr. Andy Kaufman and Dr. Tom Cowan? We’re the few that know what’s going on here in terms of the virus not being isolated. It’s hard to believe that five people would know the truth and everybody else would be confused or misunderstanding it.
There are more and more people speaking out. For example, if you go to Dr. Kaufman’s website and you see the SOVI the Statement on Virus Isolation, which was authored by him, Dr. Cowan and Sally Fallon Morell, the last I checked there were at least over 7,000 people, it might even be over 8,000, that had signed on to that.
Go to the website of Torsten Engelbrecht, an investigative reporter. On his homepage. If you scroll down a little, he has a list of experts that are speaking out, includes people like Kelly Brogan. She is on that list. There are some well-known people that I’m personally not as familiar with because their work goes back quite a while.
The media’s role is to keep you in fear of something that doesn’t even exist.
I’m pleased to hear that the numbers are growing, but I’m also convinced that it takes one voice to point out the truth. You have to because if you don’t, you can’t live with yourself. There is an opportunity for others to listen and learn.
There are a lot of people behind the scenes. There are doctors and scientists who are also aware and are not speaking out. I have an email from a particular lawyer who is on my email list. This one said to me, “Thank you, Christine, for sending this. We feel the same way. We want to bring all this fraud forward. People have been lied to for so many years, but we can’t talk about this because if we do, we won’t have the support of the public.” There’s a lot of doctors and scientists too at this point that they’ve become aware, but they won’t say it out loud because they’re afraid it will sound too out there.
I understand that but at the same time, if nobody tells the truth, we’re never going to get out of this. This isn’t just about COVID-19. They’re not going to stop with COVID-19. There’ll be endless variants, endless new imaginary viruses being used to control and manipulate people. It’s very disturbing what’s going on already. If people don’t tell the truth, how are we going to get out of this?
It will be an endless discussion about, “How bad is it? What are the appropriate measures? What are the best treatments?” It will go on and on. They’re already getting ready to roll out. There’ll be new, improved tests. We can’t just talk about the PCR tests. We can’t do that. We have to get to the heart of the matter and educate the public so that they’re no longer vulnerable to these lies.
I’m glad you brought up the test because if the virus hasn’t been isolated or purified, what are they testing?
Most people get diagnosed based on a PCR test and this is the technology of Kary Mullis, a brilliant scientist who won a Nobel Prize for that technology but it was never anything to do with testing. It wasn’t about diagnosing people. There’s a couple of things to understand. First, nobody ever purified this alleged virus, took genetic material specifically from it and sequence that.
Instead, they’re always working with these ridiculous soups where they assume there’s a virus, take the genetic material from that soup, play around on their computers and create something that doesn’t correspond to anything in nature. There are no legitimate SARS-CoV-2 genomes, even though I believe well over one million sequences, so-called genomes uploaded online that people can look at. The PCR tests are sequence-based tests. You’re trying to do a sequence-based test for something that’s never been shown to the cyst and has never been sequenced.
Even if you knew that there was a virus and even if you had properly sequenced it, the test doesn’t test for viruses. It’s not looking for a virus, disease, infection or genome. They’re looking for these little itsy-bitsy sequences that they say are part of the genome and a marker for the virus. That’s all they’re testing for these tiny little sequences. It’s not even the same sequence in every person because they test for more than one sequence. They have sequences that correspond to the E gene, the N gene or the RDRP gene. There’s a number of them.
All these people who got slapped with a fraudulent diagnosis, a positive PCR test, is based on testing for a sequence. They don’t have any particular sequencing common because maybe one person was positive on the E gene but negative on the others and their neighbor who tested positive was positive on the N gene and negative on the others.
Your readers may have heard about the fact that with these tests and other problems, it depends on cycles. There are always cycles happening where if the sequence that they’re looking for is there, the amount of it, the number of copies get doubled every time. What they’ve been doing is running so many cycles and doubling so many times that it was already known that once you go over a certain number of cycles, the results are meaningless.
Even if you get a test result, it might be noise in the system. When people talk about false positives, they think, “The person didn’t necessarily have COVID-19.” It’s much worse than that. It means they didn’t even necessarily have that little sequence that they didn’t know had anything to do with the virus in the first place.
I’m trying to get people to understand because there are still people putting in so much effort. Even people who have heard about this issue, they’re still trying to make sense of the data, analyze it and make arguments based on the data because it hasn’t fully sunk in. There is no meaning behind any of that data. It’s all garbage.
There’s no meaning to it or common denominator behind those cases. You can’t even say, “It wasn’t SARS-CoV-2 or some virus.” It’s not anything. There’s nothing specific behind those confirmed cases. There’s nothing useful at all about any of that data. The only thing you could use it for is to see how much fraud did they get away with. That’s it.
How are they possibly suggesting that people have a certain variant like they tested positive for this variant? How do they even know if the original virus hasn’t even been isolated? In other words, you’re also saying that the whole variant thing is a conjecture or a theory that has not at all been proven.
I’ve seen documents from the UK government. We hear about the spike protein a lot. Supposedly the spike protein is what allows the imaginary virus to get into a cell. The spike protein is a fundamental feature of this imaginary virus. Last December 2020, they first started talking about variants and the first one they started talking about supposedly was in the UK. They called it the Alpha Variant and it’s also B.1.117 or something like that.
With one of the variants, I believe it was with the Alpha. They started saying that Alpha was when they couldn’t detect the spike protein. “We can’t even find the spike protein and spike protein is important.” They might’ve called you negative or at the outset, they kept changing the criteria along the way. You might have been negative or positive, depending on if they could find one of the other sequences because eventually, they decided, “As long as we can find one of them, that’s good enough.” When they started talking about this Alpha Variant, it was when they couldn’t find the spike protein and so you have a variant.
In spite of saying you don’t have it, they started saying you have a variant.
They started calling it a variant. They would have to find one of the other sequences but still, it was getting ridiculous. This feature that we constantly hear about the spike protein, Alpha Variant, is when they can’t find a spike protein. My understanding is they don’t rely on the PCR tests for diagnosing a variant. That’s what I’ve seen written from various institutions that they don’t have a test.
What they did was they interpreted the inability to find or detect the spike protein as an indication that maybe there’s a variant and so then they would do their sequencing, which is totally meaningless. It’s completely fraudulent. They fabricate their genomes, but if they fabricated a genome in someone, they could find another sequence but they couldn’t find the spike protein sequence. They make up a genome and they see that’s a genome of a variant. They never identified any virus to begin with, let alone any so-called variants.
I want to pose to you the question I often pose at the end. If the reader could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend that they do, Christine?
Stop listening to the media and the public health officials. They’re the ones spreading the fear and misinformation. It’s good to stay informed and have an idea of what’s going on but you’re not getting accurate information from them and their role is to keep you in fear of something that doesn’t even exist. Listen to your heart or whatever it is that resonates with you. Let that guide you, not new stories because that will be our undoing if we follow the news. Do that.
We thank you for your time and for your work, Christine.
Thank you so much, Hilda. I appreciate it.
About Christine Massey
Christine is a former biostatistician for cancer researchers, and for years, she has been a passionate advocate for safe drinking water. Once covid appeared on the worldwide screen, Christine shifted her focus, seeking answers to the question about the isolation, purification, and existence of SARS-CoV-2.
Important Links:
- BetterHelp.com/wise
- HolisticHilda.com
- Jennifer Harcourt – Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 from Patient with Coronavirus Disease, United States
- Torsten Engelbrecht
is it my computer , or is the audio missing for this podcast?