Racing thoughts? Chronic stress? Physical disease? Most of us turn to distractions to avoid the pain and discomfort of anxiety and stressors. What if we could learn to embrace our emotions and see them as part of the healing journey? Greg Schmaus is a Holistic Health Practitioner with an expertise in healing the mind. His protocols include nutrition, movement, meditation and a number of lifestyle practices.
Today, Greg emphasizes the importance of allowing ourselves to actually experience our emotions instead of tamping them down. Greg talks about how we can train the mind, almost as we would train a puppy, and learn to sit with it and grow from it. He also opens up and shares his own story and how he’s been able to address his own mental health struggles and to help many others.
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Mental Health: Anxiety
Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda Labrada Gore and the regular text is Greg Schmaus.
The minute we feel anxious or sad, a lot of us reach for something to distract us. What if sitting with the discomfort could facilitate healing? This is Episode 358. Our guest is Greg Schmaus. He is a holistic health practitioner who puts an emphasis on healing the mind through the use of nutrition, movement, meditation, and a number of lifestyle practices. We discuss with Greg how healing is within reach through simple, practical ways.
Greg emphasizes allowing ourselves to experience the emotions we feel and live in the moment. There is power in not drowning out our feelings but rather embracing them as part of the healing journey. Greg also offers specific tips for managing racing thoughts, chronic stress, and physical stressors. He opens up to us about his own story and mental health struggles.
Check out the upcoming events for the Weston A. Price Foundation.
Welcome to the show, Greg.
Thank you so much for having me. It’s an honor for me to be here with you.
I heard the news on the radio that suicide and depression are up in a major way. Can you speak to that? Have you seen more clients coming to you with issues of depression and anxiety?
What we are experiencing has always been here but I do think the pandemic, COVID, the whole situation, and what’s going on in the world has magnified what was there all along. It’s almost like a collective shamanic journey that whatever is going on within you is going to magnify that and bring it to the surface. I do think that there has been a lot of anxiety, depression, mental health challenges that we have all experienced but this is a time that everything is being brought to the surface and called forth to be healed.
I don’t think it’s anything new. I think it’s being magnified during this time. That’s common when it comes to anything because anytime you increase the overall stress load of an organism, whether it be a human or anything, it always magnifies whatever imbalance was there. I do think the overstimulation of people’s nervous systems, the isolation, the lack of community, and a lot of the overall stress like the stress bucket is filled to the top, and now it’s tipped over. I do think there are a lot of elements that are bringing it all to the surface and the overall stress load of humanity is at an all-time high. It’s magnifying what has been there all along.
Do the people who come to you have symptoms or someone else’s sent them to you? They think, “I should go see this unique practitioner.” What I’m trying to get at is that it surprises me that they come to you because I would think they would go to see a psychiatrist or a psychologist if they have symptoms of depression, anxiety, OCD or something.
The clients that come to me for a lot of these challenges were my case when I was on my journey, which is I tried a lot of the conventional routes, the conventional therapies and offered different medications. A lot of the clients that come to me have been down that road, checked all those boxes, and didn’t get much results. They are already looking for something more alternative. I’m maybe the tenth person that they have come to try and find some answers.
A lot of times, the body and the mind mirror back to us parts of ourselves that still need healing.
They have usually gone the mainstream route and haven’t gotten much lasting results, which unfortunately is very common, not that any of those therapies or interventions are bad or negative. There’s a time and place for all of it. Most of the clients that come to me have explored all of those options and now are looking for answers.
Let’s go back to your own journey. You were around nineteen when you had a health issue, a surgery, and said coming out of that was when you started to get some mental health symptoms. What was that like?
I was coming out of surgery from a physical trauma that I had. As I was coming out of anesthesia and was recovering, I started experiencing a lot of insomnia and panic. I started experiencing a lot of what I was considering to be hallucinations, seeing things that weren’t there, and whatnot. It led to a lot of anxiety, trouble sleeping, panic, and obsessive-compulsive, looping thought patterns that I had a hard time getting away from or getting out of.
That lasted for many years to the point where the rest of that school year I remember I had a hard time sitting in a classroom for more than twenty minutes without having to go outside, get some fresh air and ground myself. I ended up leaving school after that year, taking a little bit of time off and devoting my time to my own healing.
I eventually went back to school but it was challenging with a lot of the anxiety, the OCD, and the looping thought patterns, and a lot of the challenges that went along with that. It also then became physical because the body and the mind are not separate entities. As above so below, I started experiencing a lot of gut issues and challenges in my body as well. It took me on my own healing journey.
Where did that take you, Greg? Where did you end up after all that?
I tried a lot of the conventional methods of talk therapy, Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and was offered medications but I never felt that was the right path for me. I always had this sense on that journey that there’s some purpose and meaning behind this. This is a journey that I was called forth to go on. It was taking it upon myself to start looking for answers.
I would find every book I could find on meditation, mindfulness, nutrition, and holistic health. What brought me to the Weston A Price Foundation and Wise Traditions was my own search for my own wellbeing. I remember being in college and inside my textbooks was the Wise Traditions Journal like the monthly journal that you would get.
I would be on my laptop instead of following the slides. I was on the Weston A Price website, looking at everything nutrition-related and searching for ways in which I could heal myself. That’s what eventually led me to my teacher and mentor, Paul Chek, from the CHEK Institute. He decided that he was willing to take me on as a client, which was amazing because he’s a very sought-after practitioner, and hard to get in with him as a client.
For some reason, he felt like he had a contract with me and always said, “Greg, this is not your therapy. This is your internship because all the tools that I’m teaching you to heal yourself with, you are going to be using with countless clients, students, and people that you are going to be coaching.” He was spot on. He and I did about three-plus years of coaching together, and that was everything from shamanic practices to Tai Chi, Qigong, meditation, and doing a lot of the inner work to bring myself back into balance and harmony.
I have heard you say that challenges of this sort, whether they are mental or physical challenges to our body, happen for us, not to us. I can see in your case where there was a purpose that as a wounded healer, move forward and help other people. For most people, I know a young girl that used to have panic attacks and a young man who struggles with depression. It’s hard for me to see how it’s happening for them. Can you explain that a little bit?
I’m not going to say this is the case for everybody but a lot of times, the body and the mind mirror back to us parts of ourselves that still need healing. A lot of times, if we are struggling with something in the body or psychologically, a lot of what we experience are symptoms of the body or the mind mirroring back to us where we still have work to do so.
The symptoms are teachers and messengers that are showing us where our next level of growth development and healing is. I remember I was sitting with my girlfriend once, and she said something profound out of nowhere, “It’s amazing what the body will take on for the growth of the soul.” I think that all souls are incarnate with lessons to learn and are here to grow themselves.
A lot of times, the health challenges that we experience are opportunities for us to expand our conscious awareness of what we are creating in our lives. I do think a lot of our challenges are growth opportunities. These challenges it was with my own journey. It delivered me to my life purpose and my life path. I know that to be true for so many clients I have worked with because, for example, a ton of my clients that I work with then become CHEK practitioners, a therapist or coaches. I do think that a lot of souls choose a challenging path as a way of learning the lessons and the wisdom that they can then share as a healing force for the world.
All souls incarnate with lessons to learn, and they’re here to grow themselves.
For each individual, it’s an opportunity for us to grow, especially when it comes to challenges in the body. Remember, every behavior that’s expressed through the body is based on a choice. Every choice is based on a belief system. The body is very often mirroring back to us our belief systems that might be or might not be working for us. The pain and the symptoms that arise are an opportunity for us to go back and take a look at what we are ready to let go of and what’s not serving us anymore.
Even if someone can’t quite make out what their greater purpose is or what the purpose is in the long-term of their illness or obstacle, ultimately, it helps them become proactive about their healing in the best-case scenario. They become healthier and have a ripple effect on the world around them, not to mention that they are living a healthier life, full of integrity, so to speak.
Each individual is 50% of every relationship. When you heal yourself, you are healing 50% of every relationship and the reference point that you are engaging the relationship from, which then has a healing force on every person you engage, the rippling effects.
Help us understand your approach to helping your clients regain mental and even physical health.
I always start with the basics, what Paul teaches at the CHEK Institute, which is the 4 doctors and the 6 foundation principles, which are diet, quiet, movement, and happiness, and the six foundation principles of nutrition, hydration, sleep, breathing, thinking, and movement. I always start with those foundational principles first because I never put the cart before the horse.
I always address the foundation. I do think that one of the biggest illusions that we create in our modern society, which the ego loves, is that complex issues need complex solutions where that is a great illusion. A lot of times, when we have a complex issue like obsessive-compulsive disorder or an anxiety disorder, depression, we think that there has to be a complex solution for my complex issue.
We overlook the power of the basics and the power of simplicity. I always start with getting someone dialed in, making sure they are sleeping and breathing well, moving their body effectively, spending time out in nature, and grounding themselves. I always start with that foundation. I move into some of the deeper work. We take a look at what the purpose of the mind is. A lot of people ask themselves, “Why do I constantly have all of these negative looping thoughts? Why do I have all this anxiety?”
People don’t understand that your mind’s number one priority is survival. The number one priority of the mind is to keep you alive and people ask, “Why are 90% of our thoughts negative?” For you to survive, does your mind, which is your watchdog, have to be aware of all the positive things or the negative things?
Is it the birthday parties and candles that are a threat to your survival or was it the lions, the tigers, and the snakes underneath the rock that are a threat to your survival? The more trauma someone experiences, the more they perceive their environment as threatening and the more stress, anxiety, and imbalance in the nervous system they create.
One thing that’s important for people to understand is when you start having a lot of these mental, emotional challenges, anxiety, and obsessive-compulsive disorder, some of these challenging thought processes to understand this is your mind trying to protect you. This is your mind trying to keep you safe. Trying to get rid of this is trying to tell your watchdog to stop barking when there’s a potential threat outside. The mindful awareness of, “My mind is here to protect me. I’m not going to try and get rid of it. I’m going to give thanks for it. Thank you for looking out and trying to protect me.”
What we do is drop into the body. A lot of times, we use anxiety and mental activity to avoid the feelings and emotions in the body that we don’t want to experience, which is why I tell people, “Anxiety is not a feeling. Anxiety is the avoidance of feeling.” When you say, “I feel anxious,” no, there’s something right beneath that, that you don’t want to feel. Your anxiety is your attempt to jump outside of yourself.
Let’s sit with that because you are saying anxiety, that overall feeling, the shallow breathing, the feeling of unease doesn’t come because we are feeling something. It’s pointing to a feeling that we are trying to avoid. Is that right?
Yes. It might be fear, the feeling of rejection or feelings of grief. It might be some emotion that has gone unprocessed. The anxiety is our attempt to bypass the emotion or the feeling that we don’t want to experience. For people who struggle with many mental health challenges, think of it like a seesaw where the mind is on one side and the body on the other side, and the seesaw are complementary opposites. The language of the mind is thinking, the language of the body is feeling so the more we think, the less we feel. The less we think, the more we feel.
A lot of people have a lot of mental activity because they are trying to numb out the feelings in the body that they don’t want to feel. It’s like, “Let me live from the neck up so I don’t have to experience anything else below.” A big thing with anxiety, OCD, and things like that, is asking this one question, “What am I unwilling to feel now?” Dropping into your body and allowing yourself to feel the energetic experience of each emotion moving through you, immediately, the mind starts to quiet down because you are no longer using the mind to bypass the body.
Anxiety is not a feeling. Anxiety is the avoidance of feeling.
“What am I unwilling to feel now?” That’s the question. This is interesting because I’m well aware of how the mind plays a role in our overall health. Generally, I feel like I’m wired in such a way that I try to stay positive because of that. What I mean is I maybe try to avoid some of the more negative or lower vibration emotions of anger, frustration or disappointment because I want to have my body, all is well, all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. That’s what an old saint used to say. Maybe I would better be served if I acknowledged the feeling rather than trying to set it aside and then still reminding my body, “I’m in a safe and happy place.”
I think that one thing that we all struggle with is if we go back to when we were born, a blank slate. Maybe there are past lives and the journey of the soul but in this lifetime, we are a blank slate. We don’t have any idea of good or bad, right or wrong, or this emotion versus that emotion. When we want to laugh, we laugh. We want to cry, we cry. When we want to scream, we scream. We do this and that. It’s pure presence and experience because we haven’t yet been programmed or conditioned into the world of polarity.
We go to school and have teachers, priests, rabbis, parents, coaches, and mentors that we start to become indoctrinated into this world of polarity of, “This is good, this is bad. This is right, this is wrong. Anger? That’s bad. Gratitude? That’s good. Excitement? That’s good. Shame? That’s bad.” What happens is we start dividing our whole existence into these two polarities of right and wrong, good or bad, positive and negative. We start attaching ourselves to everything that we call positive and divorcing ourselves from everything that we were taught was negative.
We create this suffering of attached to all the good disassociate from all the bad. That’s what starts to create what’s called the shadow. A lot of the healing work is based on a concept that I use in my practice, which many people know about called the Mandorla. It’s like the Venn diagram with the two intersecting circles. You have the left, the right, the intersection in the middle, the center space.
The Mandorla is that center space in the middle where the left side, we have the positive polarity. On the right side, we have the negative polarity and neutrality or unity in the middle. A lot of the healing work is being able to sit in the center of the Mandorla, where we go beyond the programming of the polarity of right versus wrong, good versus bad.
We allow ourselves to experience every part of ourselves from a place of non-judgment. That’s what allows us to reintegrate all of the parts of ourselves that we have disassociated from and then release the attachments to all of the parts of ourselves that we call good that we are overly attached to. Most people experiencing a lot of, especially mental and emotional health challenges, are constantly polarizing their whole internal experience of, “This is a good part of me. This is a bad part of me. This is a part that myself and the world approve of. This is a part of me that the world and myself I was told we should disapprove of.”
A lot of the healing work is healing that divisiveness within us, sitting in the center of that Mandorla, which there are a ton of different meditation practices and things that we can do to find that space. What we call unity consciousness is when we find the one behind the two, so to speak, the oneness behind that polarity.
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This is intriguing, and I’m going to have to go back and read this again to make sure it all sinks in. Greg, what if it’s not so much that we have been programmed? We are living in this tension. That’s why we struggle with mental health because we are not letting our bodies feel. What if it’s not all that? What if it’s like heavy metals in our water, pesticides, and glyphosate that we are breathing in? What if the mental health issues have more physical roots?
That’s very common. I always start with the basics, and a lot of the basics involve cleaning up the gut detoxing heavy metals. A lot of times, it is that functional medicine work that we have to do. That’s why I always have different practitioners and functional medicine doctors that I always refer clients to any time I receive their paperwork. I say, “There is a huge physiological stress on this person.” Not only can this be the source of their mental health challenges but even if it’s not, their ability to do the inner work with this amount of load on their system is going to be very challenging.
If you want to shrink something, let it expand. If you want to get rid of something, let it flourish.
A lot of times, you have to clean up the body first, and then that creates more space inside of them to then go and do the inner work. I have found so many times, and even with myself, things like the gut microbiome are absolutely essential to look into when it comes to mental health challenges, any chronic infections, Lyme disease, chronic strep are classic underlying causes of things like anxiety, depression, and OCD. I have had so many clients that we have had to look into a lot of this work first, and that either take care of it or it decreases the overall stress load that now they have more space inside of them to do the work.
I have been thinking about previous generations who didn’t do all this shadow work and healing childhood wounds and trauma, and they seemed so resilient. Perhaps they had a better base, less stress because they had that nutritional foundation, the emotional support of the community, and so forth.
A lot of it is the overall stress load. We can sum that up with what we are experiencing in our modern-day technological society is overstimulated nervous systems. That is, by far from my perspective, one of the biggest, if not the biggest, cause of a lot of mental, emotional, and physical health challenges. Our overstimulated nervous systems are stuck in that sympathetic fight or flight state that has never shifted back into that parasympathetic state.
Remember, any time we are in a sympathetic fight or flight overstimulated nervous system state, we are constantly in survival mode. When we are in survival mode, we are always looking out for potential threats in our environment, and the lens in which we are perceiving the world from is that of survival, stress, and self-preservation. Whenever we are in that state, we are constantly in survival self-preservation and always in the part of the brain called the default mode network.
The default mode network is the part of the brain that says, “Think what you have always thought, do what you have always done, believe what you have always believed because it’s kept you alive until now.” Anything that’s new, novel or different is a threat to our survival now because it’s the unknown. That’s why my mentor, Paul Chek, said once in one of our courses, “When you are running from a lion, it’s not a good idea to throw in a cartwheel.” What he’s saying is when you are in survival mode, your creative novel thinking is shut down. Your ability to entertain any new perspective is shut down when you are in survival mode.
That’s also important for people navigating COVID, the pandemic, mainstream narrative versus other perspectives. There is a lot of conflict and divisiveness. What people don’t realize is if you or the person you are engaging with is in a state of overstimulation, they are in that default mode network. Anything that’s a different perspective than where they are at right there is essentially a threat to their own survival.
Their bandwidth to entertain your new idea is completely shut down because of the state of their nervous system. That’s why I tell people, “If you want to have healthy relationships during this time with people that have different perspectives than you, don’t change their minds. Shift their state. Once you shift their state, you open the bandwidth for them to receive a new idea. Before doing that, you are going to be shut down.” The overstimulated nervous system and that sympathetic fight or flight state is the root of a lot of our modern-day diseases, whether it be physical, mental or emotional.
The other component that is important is now, compared to previous generations and our ancestors, we have so many more ways to disassociate from ourselves than we ever have in the past. If there’s an emotion you don’t want to experience now, cool, you can hop on Facebook. If there’s a feeling you don’t want to feel, Instagram is right there. There are so many ways in which we can outsource our awareness and bring our attention outside of ourselves. There’s so much internally that doesn’t get processed because we have disassociated.
We have so many more distraction mechanisms from drowning yourself in Netflix when you have had a bad day rather than sitting by the fire and processing it. I do think that there’s a lot of unresolved trauma and unprocessed emotion that gets stored in the system where, in previous generations, we didn’t have any means of doing that.
The sitting by the fire and processing that hard day is scary for a lot of people.
It is but it’s scarier to live a life of chronic pain, knowing that if you didn’t address it in the moment and you spend your life bypassing it, then you are always living a life of compensation. You are always living a life trying to avoid the parts of yourself that you don’t want to experience. You are almost always running from yourself. You are living a life always running from yourself. A lot of times, we can do this in perceiving healthy ways. Some people have addictions to exercise. My way of running from my emotions and insecurities was over-exercising.
A lot of people, unfortunately, like society or the community, might look at you and be like, “Look at you. You worked so hard in the gym, such a nice physique, this and that.” They do not realize that I’m using it to bypass my own unresolved anger or insecurities. There are very subtle ways in which we can do it. You are better off addressing the challenging pain at the moment that moves through you like that, rather than spending a lifetime trying to bypass it all.
Greg, this has been a great conversation. You have brought a lot of new ideas to the fore. I want to ask you a couple more questions as we prepare to wrap up. One is I want to know another story. We already know yours to a degree but maybe you have a client who came to you with OCD or some anxiety. What are some simple tips you gave them to come back into balance out of that sympathetic nervous system mode and into the parasympathetic?
I have had many clients who have been hospitalized for a lot of mental illnesses. What a lot of people don’t realize is these are very gifted, highly evolved souls that have a high level of consciousness. They just haven’t learned how to navigate it all yet. I had one client who wasn’t able to leave his house because of his chronic panic attacks and obsessive-compulsive patterns.
The lowest hanging fruit that anyone can do to improve their health is just to improve the quality of their sleep.
The work that we did is a lot of deep meditative work, which is being able to take a lot of the activity in your mind what you are experiencing as obsessive-compulsive patterns of panic and this and that, creating space between you and the thinking mind. This is what meditation and mindfulness are all about, which is creating space and being able to create enough space between you and the thinking mind, where you become the witness. You become the observer, where no matter what’s going on, from the standpoint of mental activity, you can watch it from a higher vantage point.
It’s almost like you are watching a movie, a film. From that space, you can then assess it and take a look at what’s going on and rising up in you but not from a place of reactivity. It’s not from a place of getting consumed by the storm but sitting in the center of it, sitting in the eye of the storm, whereas perfectly still. It’s like a lifeguard tower on the beach. I have this called the lifeguard tower meditation, which Paul taught me during our coaching together, which is all of the activity in your mind, your emotions, and your body is like all of the activity on the beach.
In this meditation, we climb up to the lifeguard tower, sit up there and watch. We witness it all unfolding. From this higher vantage point of awareness, you create more freedom because you create more space. That gives that person the ability to go about their day. Whenever something rises up within them, they can simply witness it like they are a third-party observer.
Cultivating a lot of tools and practices through meditation and Tai Chi, breathwork, Qigong, and different shamanic practices that I do with clients is getting them to that space of that higher vantage point. Once you create that space and detach yourself from the thinking mind and all the chaos and activity going on below you, you can engage and not get so consumed, and imprisoned by many of those patterns.
Another thing that’s important to explain to clients like that, that I work with is the paradox of the mind. The paradox of the mind is like the old saying, “What you resist persists.” Let’s say you have looping or negative thoughts. Whatever you try and push away from you pushes right back. I remember when I was going through my own healing, I used to read a lot of Eastern philosophy, a lot of Taoism, and Zen Buddhism.
I would read these teachings like, “If you want to shrink something, let it expand. If you want to get rid of something, let it flourish.” I have this meditation that I also do if my clients called the puppy at the park. Essentially, what I do is I take my client to the park, and I imagine them taking their puppy there, and their puppies are their minds.
What I do is we sit on the bench and tell the puppy to go play in the park, go run around. I’m going to sit on the bench and watch. The amazing thing that happens is the mind stays still. The mind doesn’t do anything. The mind goes quiet. A lot of times, what people struggle with is when their mind is overactive, they try and put the puppy in the crate. They try and put it on the leash and hold it tight. That’s what makes the mind start barking and crying, getting louder and louder. It doesn’t have space to do its thing.
I take the puppy to the park. I say, “Go run around and play. I’m going to sit on the bench and watch.” Sometimes the mind goes and does it stay, and goes here and there. If it pulls you away too much, what we do is we say, “Come back to your breath.” Coming back to the breath is like putting the puppy on the leash. It’s like coming to attention. You stabilize it for 1 to 2 minutes and say, “Now go play again. Go run around.” You take the leash off, and you let it go.
A lot of times, we do this back and forth. I call it puppy training. Eventually, you tell the mind, “Go play,” and it’s completely silent. A lot of that work is what starts to create space. You realize that you are not your thinking mind. You are the presence witnessing it all. When you can reinforce to get back to that space, then you can operate from an empowered place that you don’t get so consumed by what rises up in you on a mental and emotional level.
This sounds encouraging, and I can picture a few of us applying some of these ideas you have given. Thank you, Greg. As I wrap up, I want to ask you now, if the reader could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend they do?
I want to think of something cool to say but honestly, it’s boring. The most powerful thing that anyone can do to improve their health is to optimize their sleep. That sleep is the most powerful medicine that we all have. With our modern-day society with Wi-Fi routers, constant stimulation from devices, and constant artificial lightening at night, we are overstimulated.
People’s sleep cycles, circadian rhythms, and sleep quality have been so disrupted that that’s the lowest hanging fruit that anyone can do to improve their health is to improve the quality of their sleep. It’s not a sexy answer. It’s what I think is the most powerful medicine that we all have, and it’s free. It doesn’t cost us anything.
Thank you so much for this conversation. It has been encouraging. I’m grateful that you are part of this mental health track.
Thank you so much for having me. I enjoyed it.
Our guest was Greg Schmaus. Visit his website, Healing4D.com, for more information and resources from him. You can find me at HolisticHilda.com. I want to invite you to something new. I want to hear you. Tell me your healing story. You can give me a 2-to-3-minute audio testimonial of what the Weston A Price Foundation or the Wise Traditions Lifestyle has done for you. Start with your name and where you are from, and then go for it. It’s as easy as leaving a voice message on someone’s phone, even though I know people don’t do that very much anymore.
Go to the Podcast tab on the WestonAPrice.org website, click on the About the Show drop-down tab, and you’ll see the speak pipe icon at the top of the page. Take it from there. I can’t wait to hear your story. Thanks in advance. Thank you for reading, my friend. I always appreciate it. Stay well. Hasta Pronto.
About Greg Schmaus
Greg Schmaus is the CEO of Healing 4D, a Holistic Health Practitioner, Shamanic Energy Healer, and Massage Therapist. He is the creator of “Healing The Mind,” a 21 day holistic mental health program.
Greg takes a fully holistic and integrative approach to mental emotional healing. Greg’s coaching practice was born out of his own healing journey. He specializes in truly getting to the root cause of one’s health challenges on the level of mind, emotions, body, and spirit. Greg is trained through The CHEK Institute as a Holistic Health Practitioner and through The Four Winds School as a Shamanic Energy Healer.
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