Lard mimics our natural skin oils. It has the same ph balance and lipid balance as our skin does. This is one reason we might want to consider not only cooking with it, but using it for skin care! Charles Mayfield, author, regenerative farmer, and founder of Farrow (lard-based skincare) today explains how lard is good for both our health and our skin.
He goes over lard’s nutrient profile, why it’s been maligned or misunderstood for so long, and how he stumbled into discovering its wonders himself. Charles also offers simple tips for healthy living, inside and out!
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Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda.
Lard mimics our natural skin oils. It has the same pH balance and lipid balance as our skin does. This is one reason we might want to consider not only cooking with lard, but using it for skincare. This is Episode 456, and our guest today is Charles Mayfield, author, regenerative farmer and Founder of the first lard-based skincare line, Farrow.
In this episode, he explains how lard is good for both our health and our skin. He goes over lard’s nutrient profile, why it’s been maligned or misunderstood for so long, and how he stumbled himself into discovering its wonders. Charles also points out the difference between pigs that are regeneratively farmed and factory farm pigs and why the lard that comes out is different in its composition and benefits.
Before we get into the conversation, I want to invite you to join hands with us. If you have benefited from this show or any materials or initiatives from the Western A. Price Foundation, please become a member. We can only do our education, research, and activism with your help. There’s no other way. join now by going to WestonAPrice.org and clicking on the Join Now button and use the code POD10 to join for only $30 for the entire year. You will get a quarterly journal and other perks for being a member. Thank you so much and welcome to the family.
Welcome to the show, Charles.
Great to be here. Thank you for having me.
I’m so happy to touch on this topic. Most people, when they think of lard, think it’s something to be replaced by Crisco, and it’s an old-fashioned product, but as well as I do that lard is a wonderful, healthy, nutrient-dense fat to include in our diet and maybe even for our skin. Tell me what you know about lard and its benefits. Start with the basics.
The basics are lard is the rendered subcutaneous fat from a pig. I say that because you also have leaf lard, which we can talk about. We use leaf lard in our products as well, but everyone knows tallow. Tallow is the rendered visceral fat from a ruminant. Now, that’s most commonly a cow or bovine species, but you’ve got bison tallow, elk tallow, and deer tallow.
Tallow is the rendered visceral fat from a herbivorous ruminant. Lard is a little bit unique. There are hardly any domesticated omnivores. Chickens and pigs, I would say, are the two predominant domesticated omnivores for food. Lard is a unique term and it’s specific to pigs. Lard is the rendered subcutaneous fat. For humans, that’s belly fat or back fat. Leaf lard is the rendered visceral or kidney fat.
I know it’s not a competition, but why is tallow winning? I say that because on TikTok, there are these, “Use tallow for your skin.” Tallow is all the rage and everyone’s ignoring lard.
I have a couple of thoughts on that. First and foremost, lard was the first animal fat to be picked on by proctor and gamble and seed oils at large. The war was waged, Crisco. For your audience that doesn’t know, Crisco is dyed white to mimic what lard looks like in a natural state. Lard got “picked on” first. I would also say, and this is why I’m grateful that tallow has led the charge into animal fats. There’s a two-fold difference between visceral and subcutaneous fat. Tallow is derived from visceral fat. Lard is not. Lard is derived from subcutaneous fat. More importantly, the way a cow metabolizes its environment and its energy are very different than the way a pig does.
All cows, every steak and pound of ground beef in this country that we eat got at least 14 to 16 months of natural grass in its diet. It was out on pastorage. Generally speaking, it’s only the last few months in a feedlot situation. Obviously, I’m speaking about the industrial meat side of the house, but only in those last few months does it get fed a pretty abhorrent diet and live in fairly rough conditions. Again, it’s metabolizing and storing its environment very differently than a pig does. Pigs and humans share a tremendous amount of biology. The reason I’m grateful that tallow has led the charge is because a lot of the lard in our country now is awful.
Is it better than seed oils? Probably. Is it better than petroleum derivatives? More than likely. I think 98% of the pork grown in the US grows up in a house, fed a very poor diet and very poor environmental conditions, and that will manifest and store in its subcutaneous fat. I always jokingly say, “The swine is divine, but the lard is hard.” You have to raise a healthy and happy pig for its fat, especially its subcutaneous fat. For that fat to be of high quality, you have to raise lots of sunshine, fresh water, pasture, and all those fun things. That’s not the case for the vast majority of pork grown in the US.
A lot of the pork is raised by these huge industrial meat companies. They have them in these concentrated animal feeding operations, and they’re injecting them with all kinds of things that they don’t get sick. In other words, the pigs are in these tight quarters, and so they’re giving them growth hormones and antibiotics, even preventatively. All that stuff, I imagine, would end up in the fat.
I could speculate that it would end up in the fat. Absolutely. I will tell you, a more important factor is their lives are devoid of the sun. Pigs and humans share so much biology. Look what happens to a human being when they don’t get enough sunlight or any sunlight. We are sick. Vitamin D shouldn’t even be called a vitamin. It’s the precursor to so much healthy production in our body. It’s great, but pigs and humans share that we metabolize vitamin D from the sun.
The crowded condition’s not great. The injectable’s not great. Does that end up in the fat? Probably. Most likely, it does. More importantly, one of the big reasons it is sick, crowded conditions, yes, but there’s no sun in that animal’s life. You take a human and take them out of sun exposure for 30, 60, 90 days, like zero sun exposure, they will be very sick and not well. I think that’s arguably the biggest driver of the problem when it comes to how we raise pigs.
Our understanding of lard, too, because if it is from those conditions, it’s not going to bring the benefits that lard, as you said, from a pig that’s had a happy life and been in the sunshine and the clean water and allowed to express its pigness, as Joel Saladin would put it. That’s a whole different thing. Let’s talk a little bit about the benefits of lard as far as you understand it for the body.
It’s got all the healthy fatty acid profiles that we look for. I’ve read a number of articles that we should touch on the whole PUFA argument. There’s this polyunsaturated fatty acid thing going around with pork, which I will listen to, but even industrial pork or corn-fed and soy-fed pork, I would put that above cereal, grains, soy, tofu, and some of the other stuff that’s out there. Certainly boxed cereal in terms of healthy profile. In terms of the balance between monounsaturated, polyunsaturated fats, it’s fantastic. You mentioned earlier, very high in Vitamin D, that’s going to be driven again by how much sun exposure they got.
Very high in the vitamins and minerals that we crave both nutritionally, but also it’s got natural collagens. It’s a perfect fat. I would argue that with the pastured side of the house, it’s a perfect meat. When was the other white meat? Wasn’t it chicken and pork? It was like this whole ad campaign 30 years ago. Folks, pork is not white. It might turn white if you raise it in a very sterile environment and rob it of sunlight. Pork is a beautiful pink-red pastured pork. I don’t even consider store-bought pork. It’s like a different product. It checks a lot of boxes in terms of vitamins and minerals. Protein content in terms of per ounce of serving, it’s magic.
Al pastor pork is different from store-bought pork. It checks a lot of boxes in terms of vitamins, minerals, and protein content per ounce of serving.
The pig has a very sorted history. You can read a lot of various religious texts about, “Don’t eat this unclean animal.” In any ways, that makes sense. In 1,000, 2,000, 10,000 years ago, if I were writing a guidebook on things to do or not to do, to perpetuate my species, I can ask you this. Have you ever been to a restaurant and had chicken or pork tartare?
It doesn’t exist because they’re a monogastric omnivore. The way they metabolize things and store and fight viruses and diseases is very different from a ruminant animal or an herbivore. Everyone knows eating undercooked pork, you run the risk of trichinosis, among others, and I would say undercooked chicken again. Those two predominant domesticated omnivores, you run the risk of getting sick and dying.
We have to rewind the clock thousands of years. If you’re out hunting and gathering and you kill a pig, you cook that pig up, and maybe you eat some undercooked pork, and one of your tribe dies. When we discover how to write things and tell stories, we’re probably going to tell some stories about how we should avoid this animal over here. We shouldn’t eat them because they’re unclean.
Just to contextually paint, why don’t we use the pig more? I think that’s a part of it. Having said that, I live a meat-based lifestyle and I view pork as the dessert portion of my meat. I eat a little bit of pork and a little bit of chicken. A life without bacon is not living and pulled pork and some of the other. You don’t know what you’re missing if you’ve never had a Porchetta de Testa or a good cured salami.
Yes. Pork belly. It’s so sweet in some way. The fat caramelizes somehow and is so delectable it melts in your mouth.
Yes. If you’ve got a butcher and you can get a pork belly, especially with the skin on, one of the earliest solid foods we ever fed our kids was chicharrones. They’re perfect. They’re the perfect crunchy, and then they turn soft. Better than a rice puff. Pork is an amazing food. As it relates to our skin, we can transition there. When I say lard, I’m referring to what I call smart lard, which is the rendered fat from a pasture-based, humanely-raised animal. Just to interject that. Not all lards are created equal, but lard is the closest exogenous substance on the planet to human sebum, which is the natural oil our glands produce. Back to this biological mimicry, lard is a spot-on match pH-balanced and lipid-balanced, and it simulates or mimics our natural oil.
I’d never heard that before. How did you learn this, Charles? You said you’re not a doctor. You’re not a chemist.
I don’t subscribe to that. I’m not a great researcher either, but you can dig around. There’s not a lot of double-blind placebo studies. It goes the same for a lot of the Wise Traditions that are promoted with Weston A Price. You’re not going to find too many studies backing this stuff up just because who’s going to pay for it? Proctor and Gamble’s not going to pay for it. General Mills isn’t going to pay for it.
I know that’s right.
I have read a number of different articles about the similarity between human sebum and lard. I say this a lot. We have lost so much intuition, pure unadulterated intuition. I live a life trying to convince people to smear a little lard on their faces. The ghastly looks I get and the, “How could I ever do that?” When you pull the ingredient list out of your favorite store brand face moisturizer, and it’s like, “Read me these ingredients that you’re perfectly fine putting this on your face.”
I have a little story to interject here. Back in the day, I wanted soft hands. I remember literally smearing my hands with Vaseline petroleum jelly and putting little gloves on at night, and then I’d wake up, my hands were super soft. I didn’t realize I was putting petroleum. Who wants petroleum on your skin? Talk about a mismatch. I didn’t know what I was doing.
I think most people are in that category. It’s like, “This little two-ounce jar at the beautiful department store is $80. That must mean it’s valuable.” We discount what’s under our very noses, which is what’s most natural, the farm animals and how people used their fat in the past.
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As a matter of fact, let me ask you this, do you know if lard or tallow were used traditionally for the skin among indigenous people groups around the world?
I like to frame skincare. Skincare, up until about 100 years ago, we’ll rewind the clock 150 years ago. A hundred fifty years ago prior to that, skincare was reserved for the 1%. It was an elite human being cottage industry. We’ve been fascinated with optimal skincare forever. Read the Egyptian text, the Mayan, everyone loves healthy, happy skin. Our infatuation with skin has not changed. What has changed is our environment. We’re spending way less time in the sun, outdoors. We’re eating Franken foods that didn’t exist even 60 years ago, but much less 200 ago.
Our infatuation with skin has not changed. We are just spending less time in the sun and outdoors, but eating more food that didn’t exist a couple of hundred years ago.
If you were a human being 200 years ago, you were in weekly, at the very least monthly, contact with animal visceral fat because you would hunt and gather, you have to take this animal and turn it into food. You kill it, and then you skin it. For those that have never hunted and never gathered an animal, a deer or even a domestic animal, a pig, try eviscerating and preparing an animal to eat without getting covered head to toe in fat.
In addition to that, we were storing food in fat. If you’re familiar with the comfy French style of cooking, it’s the slow brazing, but then there’s this cap of fat over the top, which preserves the food underneath and acts as this shield against any airborne bacteria that get in. It’s a hermetic seal over the food. As a species, we have been covered in subcutaneous and visceral animal fat for thousands of years, albeit weekly, monthly, but on a regular basis.
Skincare, at large, what we think about skincare now, is a very new industry. Much to the I would say a leading cause of that would be these petroleum derivatives and even seed oil manufacturing. All of this stuff is a waste product. If you think back 200 or 300 years ago, we were still refining gasoline back then and figuring all of that out. If you think about what exists in skincare now, it’s seed oils, petroleum derivatives, and all these chemical-derived phthalates and parabens. It’s all this chemistry that didn’t exist 200 years ago.
A lot of those chemicals that you’re mentioning are hormone disruptors. Instead of enhancing the health and vitality of our skin, they are messing with our whole body’s internal function, too.
We did a test over 3 months on 17 mice, and they were fine. I’m sure there’s nothing wrong with those phthalates on our skin. It’s funny, one of the problems with skincare is, unfortunately, the departure, if we put something in our mouth, we pay more attention to that. What we don’t understand is that we consume things that get on our skin. In fact, our skin is our largest organ. It’s often called our second stomach. We don’t think about the consumptive side of things getting on our skin. Until you get poison ivy, and then you figure out quickly that oil on the skin is not a good thing.
Another thing I’m thinking about right now is perhaps I spoke too quickly. I said these products that people buy over the counter don’t help the appearance of their skin and they’re messing with their hormones. Maybe they do help with the appearance of the skin but at a cost. I don’t just mean the financial cost. Some people are so concerned with their appearance that they’re willing to forego perhaps the consequences.
I’m thinking about people right now who do Botox and so forth, injectables that improve their appearance, no doubt. I guess there is a doubt because not everybody looks real anymore after they do that. What I’m trying to say is they’re injecting stuff in their skin that is poison. The Botox is later circulating through the body and ends up in places where it’s doing some damage.
Healthy, vibrant skin. It’s not free. It takes some work. Anything takes work. The beauty of healthy, vibrant skin is that the minimum barrier of entry is not that hard. Good sleep. Eat whole foods in your diet. Get plenty of water. Every now and then, get some activity. Every now and then, sit down, close your eyes, and breathe for 5 or 10 minutes. Just unplug a little bit. I can’t say that all Botox injections are bad. I can say that Botox, as a general statement, is not a great thing to have in your body, but I hear about specific situations where it seems to help people.
It’s not for me. We’ve got this fascination with beauty and yet a lot of the beauty we see, whether it’s with lots of makeup or nowadays, we have all this artificial airbrushing, all the tricks. Unfortunately, if you’re a consumer and you’re consuming media, whether that’s print magazines or on the television or anywhere, if it’s visual media, it’s highly doctored. Our perception of beauty versus the reality of beauty have probably never been further apart. That plays into it as well.
Our perception of beauty versus the reality of beauty has probably never been further apart.
I like what you said when you said healthy, vibrant skin isn’t free. I think everyone needs to weigh out how much they want to put into it and at what cost. I think that’s thought-provoking, at least for me.
I like what you said. It comes at a cost, but everything has a cost. Everything is pros and cons. Being healthy, being strong. All these things come at a cost. Also, being sick is costly. This is not directly related to skincare, but every now and then, I’ll get a, “Your product is more expensive than X.” You know this. People are like, “Eating healthy is expensive.” I’m like, “No, diabetes is expensive. Crohn’s is expensive.” We’ve offloaded a good portion of that cost through health insurance and various things, but those chickens come home to roost, too. I don’t think healthy skin is expensive. I think it takes dedication and work, just like unhealthy skin does. It’s all in framing.
I remember I read this book called The Mitochondriac Manifesto by R.D. Code. In it, he said, “Let’s say you buy a car, brand new, right off the lot, 2023, and you put a tarp over it and you never drive it. Ten years from now, you take the tarp off and the car looks amazing, but it also doesn’t run because you haven’t been using it.” He was talking about how much sun we get. People get concerned, “The sun will give me wrinkles.” He said, “The sun gives us energy and nourishes us on profound levels. Do you want to be a car that runs or a car that looks good?” Maybe we can have both, but that’s the trade-off we need to think about. At what price is this beauty?
In isolation, everything’s dangerous. The sun makes you unhealthy. The sun will absolutely destroy you if you spend too much time in it, if you’re full of seed oils, and if you’re eating a metabolically unhealthy diet. Do you blame the sun? Maybe, maybe not. We’ve been living with the sun for as long as I can remember. The most alarming thing to me is that the sun’s a constant. Arguably, we’re spending less time in the sun now than we did 200 years ago. We’re using sunscreen more now than we were 60 years ago. The SPF value. I can close my eyes right now and remember and smell the Panama Jack suntanning oil that my dad would bring on the boat when we’d go fishing as a kid. It is that coconutty. If you used it as a kid, you know the smell.
This is in the early ‘80s. I believe the highest SPF tanning oil, there was no such thing as a suntan cream. They were all oil-based. I believe the highest SPF out there was maybe 12 to 15. The lower the number, the darker your skin. I think even Panama Jack had a little darker bottle the lower the number went. I can smell that. I can close my eyes and go there.
Look at now, years later, we’ve got 150 SPF creams. Our time in the sun has gone down. Our SPF and sunscreen use has gone up precipitously. You would think skin cancer has gone down. That is not the case. It is tracked right along lines with increases in SPF and use. My first question is, is it the sun causing this or is it the oxybenzone and the creams, seed oils, or the myriad of other environmental exposures that are so unnatural now than even 100 years ago?
We did a show not too long ago called, “Is it the sun to blame or is it the sunscreen?” It’s exactly that question. Maybe right now, what you’re saying is that what is natural and right in front of us is probably better for us than we think. We’ve been blaming the wrong thing for issues that we have. I want to go back to something you said earlier. You were talking about something being alarming. What might surprise us about some of the chemicals that are in the over-the-counter products? As opposed to using lard, if we go to the grocery store or the department store and pick up some special little cream, or we go online, what’s in it that would shock us, do you think?
The first ingredient I’ll mention won’t shock anybody, but the follow-up. If it’s a water-based cream, which is 99.9%, if you walk into a store, you’ve got two options. You’re seeing more of these oil-based serums now, but by and large, it’s a water-based cream. The first ingredient is Agua. Skincare creams are fat-based. There’s a fat on one side, water on the other, and an emulsifier in between. If it’s water-based, there are chemicals and a myriad of chemicals, but we can batch them all up into one big pile. There are chemicals in there whose job it is to kill bacteria. The reason is when you emulsify fat with water, that water acts as a fuel source or food for bacteria.
Back to calm feet cooking, if you put that fat cap over the top of a dish, microbes, airborne, nothing can get in. You take a fat, water, and emulsifier, and you mix them together. You’ve created a very fertile environment for bacteria to grow. Even if you make that cream in a sanitary lab environment, the minute the consumer opens the jar, you and I are breathing air right now that is full of microorganisms. We live with these creatures all around us and on us.
If water is in the cream, which it is, then there are chemicals in the cream that kill bacteria, which is a good thing for the cream. It’s not a good thing when you spread those chemicals on your skin. I get to have these weird conversations all the time. Probably not as weird to this audience as maybe some others, but we’re covered in 5 to 7 pounds of bugs. The number one thing to lead to all-cause health increases for children is vaginal birth. Why is that? It’s because this amniotic sack that the child sits in is sealed off from all dangerous things. The first exposure that child has to the world is the vaginal canal of the mother, and then the environment. One of the jobs is to coat that child in the mother’s microbiome. It kicks off their immune system.
We have co-evolved with these pounds of bugs. Do we know why they’re here? The human microbiome project is in its infancy. We know less about the microbiome than we do about space. Again, we’ve lost our intuition. We co-evolved with these bugs. They are here for a reason. We know they signal us. There are all sorts of hormones. Our gut has a very different microbiome environment than our dry skin, but bugs are everywhere. That water-based cream is killing effectively by napalming your natural-born and naturally manifested microbiome. That’s not good.
I hadn’t heard all this before. This is fascinating and also alarming. I didn’t know anything about that. Thank you for sharing that.
When I first discovered that the lard works in mysterious ways, I covered myself in lard after a sunburn. The sunburn went away, and then I didn’t peel. I write about it on our website, but more importantly, a couple of months later, this light bulb moment. I go to Google and search for DIY skin creams. Sure enough, here’s a recipe. Take 2.3 ounces of distilled water and this much coconut oil. I do a one-for-one substitution between lard and coconut oil on one of the recipes I found. It made the most luscious, unbelievable cream you can ever imagine.
I used beeswax as my emulsifier. You heat everything up and then you throw it in a blender and let it rip. About seven days later, you go open the jar up and it’s black and smells like rancid death. It’s because I’m not a chemist. I didn’t put any of the chemicals in there. It’s the water that feeds these microorganisms. Of course, then, it goes rancid. I learned a very fun lesson early on. If you’re going to use water in your skincare, you better dump in a bunch of chemicals that kill bacteria. We don’t do that.
Do you have those chemicals in your Farrow products then?
No. We don’t have any water, so we don’t have to use those chemicals. We have animal fats. We use three predominant fats, lard, leaf lard, and tallow. We use raw honey. In our scented products, we use essential oils. That’s it. Pretty simple.
You said earlier that you run into skeptics who are like, “Lard, no, thank you. I’m going to stick with my oil of Olay.” What do you say to those folks?
Bless your heart. Fair enough. I’ve spent a lot of time in the paleo ancestral health, telling people to make better choices about what they eat. I usually fight back a little bit and say, “Have you read the ingredients on what you’re using on your face or on your body?” I don’t give them much after they totally fight back. We’ve lost so much of our intuition. Your great-grandmother was covered in lard all the time. Even if 100 years ago, your great-grandmother was using Crisco, even then, look at the chemicals that they allow on our skin now.
I can tell you, the chemicals did not exist. The industrial age and what we’ve been able to do technologically is unbelievable. This is the greatest time ever to be alive. It’s absolutely beyond belief. We’ve been able to fabricate, synthesize, and process a bunch of interesting stuff. I’m not sure it’s necessarily good for us. That’s skincare at large. Read the ingredient label. It will blow your mind.
Earlier, you said that when we nourish ourselves well, when we move about a bit here and there, when we get that sunshine and sufficient sleep, these are things that are all good for our skin. Is there any other low-hanging fruit for optimal skin that you could offer us?
I would say that the consumption of animal fat via your diet. I don’t know that I delineated that. Get outside, make some friends and hang out with other human beings from time to time. Put your phone in the closet and go for a walk. I would say that the undergirding and the foundation of healthy animal skin at large is the consumption of healthy animal fat.
The foundation of healthy animal skin at large is the consumption of healthy animal fat.
You’re nourishing your skin from the inside out. I love it. Charles, let me pose to you now the question I love to pose at the end of the program here. If the audience could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend that they do?
Can I give you two answers?
Smile. You’re very good at that, by the way. Spend more time smiling and laughing. I’ll tie those two together. I would say sleep. Most of the healing work gets done during sleep. There’s a reason we sleep-deprive detainees in military situations. It’s the number one tool to enlist cooperation. I would say prioritize your sleep, smile, and laugh whenever possible.
Thank you so much for this conversation. It’s been wonderful, Charles.
Thank you very much. I look forward to smiling and laughing with you a little bit here.
Our guest was Charles Mayfield. You can visit Farrow to learn more. Now for a review from Apple Podcasts from Hopel12. It’s titled Love, LOVE this show. Hopel12 says, “I’m usually a fan of longer, more in-depth podcast episodes, but somehow every single Wise Traditions podcast packs a serious punch in only half an hour. Wise Traditions has held a crucial role in my journey toward fueling my body well. Admittedly, there were a few months that I didn’t bother to do any of the recommendations, and I could feel it in my body as well as in my mental state.”
“Now that I’m pregnant, I’m all the more determined to use the Weston A. Price Foundation principles to help nourish myself and my baby and start my family legacy on a good foot. Thank you for your provoking questions and for being so dedicated to the real food movement. Wise Traditions does not disappoint and is recommended to all my friends and family.”
Hopel, this is awesome. Thank you so much for your review. These really mean something both to us who are working on the show and for those who are considering reading. Please rate us and review us on Apple Podcasts. Give us as many stars as you’d like and tell the world what you think of the show. Thank you so much for reading. Stay well and remember to keep your feet on the ground and your face to the sun.
About Charles Mayfield
Former Fitness Coach turned cookbook author and regenerative farmer combining all those experiences to launch the first lard-based skincare company–Farrow. Charles uses SmartLard technology to craft hand-made products for optimal human skin. Farrow is a chemical/preservative-free skincare company focused on creating products for optimal human skin. Farrow leverages nature’s greatest tools to heal land, skin and the human condition.
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