5G has become one of the most polarizing topics of 2020. A massive rollout and a related advertising campaign can make it challenging to distinguish facts from fiction. Today, Dafna Tachover, senior attorney and the director of 5G Wireless Harms (a project of the Children’s Health Defense), walks us through what 5G really is and how it threatens our health. She also reveals what’s driving its rapid rollout. For the record, it is not to facilitate faster downloads, as we’ve been told.
In truth, 5G is actually an infrastructure designed to connect things (not people) and collect our data, which is worth trillions of dollars for telecom companies. All the while, the microwave radiation (from pinging devices and small cell antennas) alters our DNA and causes a variety of health issues—from headaches, sleep disturbances, and tingling in the hands, to neurological and reproductive issues, ADHD, and even cancer. Dafna points out, in particular, the results of the National Toxicology Program that ran a 10-year study with results that expose the dangers posed by this level of radiation.
This conversation is critical for 5G awareness and offers insights on how to protect ourselves from unnecessary radiation exposure.
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Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda
Telecom companies are rolling out 5G across the country and around the world. In tandem, there is a strong media campaign for it. Will this enhance our connectivity? Will there be faster download speeds? What’s the purpose? What is the cost? What are the implications for our health? Is there anything we can do to slow down or stop the rollout of 5G? This is Episode 244. Our guest is Dafna Tachover. Dafna is the director of 5G Wireless Harms, a project of the Children’s Health Defense. With the CHD, Dafna submitted a historic case against the FCC, challenging its health guidelines regarding wireless radiation. Dafna is also the Founder of We Are The Evidence, an advocacy organization for the protection of the rights of the many adults and children who have been injured by wireless technology radiation. We talk about exactly what is at play with 5G.
Dafna defines it. She explains how it’s being marketed. She reveals studies that point to its serious health effects. She explains what we can do about its rollout in the first place. Before we dive into the conversation, a quick word. We are thankful for your reading and for your support of the work of the Weston A. Price Foundation. Everyone who gives a gift of $100 or more will receive a free copy of Sally’s latest book, Nourishing Diets. The Weston A. Price Foundation is member supported. We could not do all that we are doing if it were not for your support. Please give and enjoy the gift of Sally’s latest book. Thanks again.
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Welcome to the show, Dafna.
Thank you, Hilda. It’s a pleasure to be here.
5G is an infrastructure for the internet of things. It is about connecting things, not people.
I keep seeing commercials on TV that say 5G is wonderful. It’s going to simplify my life and help all of us get connected more. What don’t I learn from those commercials?
The truth. It says a lot of misinformation in regard to 5G, what it is, what it is about, what it does, and why is it good or not good for you. Until now, 1G to 4G was all technology aimed at connecting people. 5G is not a technology. 5G is an infrastructure for the Internet of Things. It is about connecting things, not people. It means that if in the past, each of us had 3 or 4 devices in our homes, now every device in our house will have a microwave radiation transmitting antenna, constantly transmitting wireless and interconnecting. Your laundry machine, tea kettle, TV, and every device in your house that is smart interconnects. It transmits data and transmits it to the companies that support that transmission. 5G is about collecting data. It’s not about faster connections. It’s about collecting data and using that data for various purposes. Marketing is a small part of it. It’s mainly for artificial intelligence purposes where the main goal eventually would be to take us into trans humans, which people become part human, part machine. This is not about speed.
Dafna, my mind is reeling because I promise you every marketing bit of material I’ve seen said we’re going to have faster connectivity. I thought to myself, “Don’t I get faster connectivity anyway when I’m hardwired? Aren’t the fiber optic cables the best for getting a fast connection?” I already had a feeling that what I was hearing wasn’t exactly accurate for me.
The most important thing that is being omitted from the information is that wireless technology is harmful to our health. That was prevented by thousands of studies. Unfortunately, we have widespread human sickness to prove it. Essentially, you’re right. Can we connect in different ways? Yes. Is wired internet connection faster, better, and safer? Yes, it is healthier and safer. It’s also safer in terms of cybersecurity. It’s much better. The issue is if you are going to use wired connections, you’re not going to be able to use your wireless devices. Wired technology is a partial solution. It’s not a solution to all of the wishes of people, but you are already getting pretty high speeds, but those high speeds support devices in your house. They don’t support the 20 billion more devices they want to add to the wireless networks with the Internet of Things and the 5G that supports it.
I have heard this term before, the Internet of Things, and you’ve explained a little bit about how that is related to data and connecting devices more than connecting people. Can you explain a little bit more? Are we talking about things like driverless cars and that sort of thing?
It’s about everything in your house. Your laundry machine and refrigerator have an antenna. They even have baby diapers to have it transmitting antenna inside a diaper, texting the mother whenever the baby poops. Anything and everything in our home will be interconnected, but also things outside our home. Driverless cars are what they call smart cities. All of those things are going to be interconnected. Your garbage can would have an antenna letting the municipality know when it’s full to come and collect it. The streetlights have an antenna that are constantly communicating. Everything in everything we’ll already have an antenna constantly transmitting data.
Some people would say, “This is great because I want to know when my baby poops. I want the garbage collector to know when my trash can is full.” What’s the problem, Dafna?
The number one problem is health. This radiation is harmful, especially to your baby. There are thousands of studies to prove the health effect. We’re not talking about one in a million people who might get harmed by this and otherwise, it’s a great technology. We’re not talking about that. We talk about thousands of studies and widespread human sickness that this technology essentially is harming almost every organ and system in the human body.
We have been seeing a major increase in many conditions. We have the condition I suffer from, which is micro sickness or electro sensitivity when people experienced neurological problems like tingling in the hands when they use wireless devices, pain in the head, heart palpitation, headaches, and sleep disturbances. Many people don’t even know that that is the reason for their symptoms because nobody’s telling them.
Likely, that is the reason for most people’s symptoms if they haven’t figured out what’s causing them that problem. It’s involved in ADHD, autism, cancers like brain tumor, thyroid cancers, and heart cancers. There’s a major health problem created by these devices. This technology is going to exponentially increase our exposure to this radiation because now you have many more devices interconnected. You need to have cell towers that will transmit that information. That means they’re going to install 800,000 small cell towers near people’s homes in the next three years. That process has started.
That’s what’s creating the public outcry. People are going to sleep, they wake up in the morning, and there’s a cell tower near their home. The levels of radiation we measure as a result of what they call a small cell antenna. People’s homes are increasing the radiation by thousands of times. People are becoming sick, not within years, not within months. I’m working with families where the whole family has been injured within days of exposure to these antennas. This is major.
I have seen some of the studies you’ve referred to that show that our exposure is exponentially greater than anything we had before because of this millimeter-wave radiation. You’ve mentioned many studies, but can you mention one specifically so we can wrap our head around what these studies are pointing to?
The study I want to mention is a study that was conducted by our own government, the Federal government by an agency called the National Toxicology Program or NTP, which is the government’s premier agency in regards to classifying of toxic. They conducted the $25 million ten-year study that was supposed to give us a final answer as to whether or not this radiation is harmful. On November 1st, 2018, they came out saying clear evidence. It causes cancer, and then in 2019, it breaks the DNA. It’s a secret cause of cancer. This causes cancer and breaks your DNA.
This is not the first or the only study that was conducted by a government. It is clear evidence of adverse effects. Many other studies are conducted by the Navy, Air Force, and EPA. Many of them are showing conclusive evidence of harm. However, while I mentioned the NTP study, I don’t think that cancer may be the most widespread consequence of this exposure. Mostly, it’s the micro sickness, electro sensitivity, and neurological problems, reproductive harms, ADHD, etc.
This is fascinating because I know that a lot of people suffer from ailments and they leave the doctors scratching their heads. The doctors are like, “We don’t know what’s causing this. Maybe it’s stress. It’s all in your head,” but apparently, the radiation could be causing the damage. I have one anecdotal story. I had a friend. We sang in a church together. My friend started having dizzy spells. We didn’t put to and to together until later, but it turns out the church had allowed their steeple to get an antenna on it to be a cell tower for AT&T or something. Already at that level of radiation, it was impacting some people, not everyone. Now I know that this is exponentially greater because of the frequency and the level of radiation. Is that right?
Yes, correct. Sadly, a lot of churches are contracting with these companies to put cell towers and schools, which is worse. I’m working with a lot of children who have been injured by cell towers in schools, children who literally get something that looks like a heart attack. It’s disturbing. They say to the public, “There’s no evidence.” They’re all hiding behind the FCC, the Federal Communication Commission guidelines that said that there’s no evidence of harm. However, there is massive evidence of harm. Our organization, the Children’s Health Defense, submitted a lawsuit against the FCC, challenging its guidelines that were not updated since 1996. We’re claiming that those guidelines are capricious, arbitrary, and not evidence-based. The refusal of the FCC to review those guidelines. They are saying that it’s not harmful and basically abuses the right to discretion.
This 5G technology is going to exponentially increase our exposure to radiation because you have so many more devices interconnected.
We are taking action on this. The evidence is there, both scientific evidence and human evidence. I do want to address one thing. You mentioned about the millimeter-wave. I do want to say that 5G is not only about millimeter waves. Only part of the 5G infrastructure is the millimeter wave. 5G is an infrastructure. It’s not a specific technology. In every antenna that is going to be used out there is part of the 5G infrastructure. Most of the deployment of 5G now includes 4G antennas. Most of those what they call small cells antenna near people’s homes or on those streets is 4G antenna. Only part of them are using media meter waves. For example, T-Mobile is using even a lower frequency that we use before, not a higher millimeter-wave frequency. It’s important that people understand it’s not about the millimeter waves. It’s about the intensification of this wireless infrastructure, connecting anything and everything wirelessly. In and every antenna that is part of that infrastructure is a 5G infrastructure.
Thank you for clarifying that. That’s important for us to know because we want to understand exactly what’s coming at us. If I understand you correctly, it’s not just the waves because not all of them are using these millimeter waves. It’s about the infrastructure and those different antennas could be using the 5G technology, even if they’re not using those millimeter waves.
5G is an infrastructure. It’s not a technology.
I have another question. I want to back up for a moment to what you were saying about the FCC. If indeed there are studies pointing to the ill effects of the rollout of this infrastructure, why is the FCC not taking those into account and changing their regulations for example?
It’s because the FCC is not working on behalf of the people. The FCC is working on behalf of the industry. There is a systematic problem with our government and our legislators. Unfortunately, a lot of our agencies are what we call captured agencies. Those are not empty words. There’s a good report that was written by Harvard University Law School and Ethics Center. It’s called FCC: Captured Agency: How the FCC is Being Controlled by the Industry it’s Supposed to Regulate. The head of the FCC is a Verizon attorney. The previous head of the FCC was the head of the CTIA, which is the wireless industry lobbying association. He headed it for fourteen years, like the tobacco industry association. The wise industry has been putting about $1 billion a year in lobbying money. There was a good article that came out. The title is How Big Wireless Lobbied Governments to Build 5G for Citizens’ Data Collection and Surveillance.
This is a problem not just with the wireless industry, but with other industries. When the study of the NTP, the government study that show that this radiation causes short, clear evidence, this radiation causes cancer and breaks the DNA came out, the FDA that funded this study came out saying it doesn’t apply to human. We spent $25 million learning what cellphones and wireless technology to interact so we can warn rats not to use cellphone. If it doesn’t apply to you, why did we fund this study?
They said it doesn’t apply to humans so now we know that rats can’t use cell phones. That is crazy.
Coming up, Dafna fills us in on ways to minimize our radiation exposure at home.
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There are many things I want to pursue with you now. Let’s start with this. You mentioned that if we have all these smart devices in our home, that’s where 5G kicks in and helps them all connect with each other to talk to me when I’m far away to say, “You need more milk in your fridge or whatever.” What if I don’t have those smart devices in my home? Does that help protect me some from what’s rolling out here?
Start to reduce your exposure to radiation. Every time you see the word Smart, it means that you have a microwave transmitting antenna in your home that exposes you to harmful radiation.
My first advice to people, start to reduce your exposure to this radiation. That means whenever you see the word smart, it means dumb. Every time you see the word smart, it means that you have a micro transmitting antenna in your home that expose you to harmful radiation. You do not want to buy and use smart devices. In terms of exposure to radiation, even if you reduce your exposure in your home, you’re still going to get radiation from the Wi-Fi from your neighbor and cell towers from the outside. In terms of this radiation, proximity is a lot. It still makes a huge difference to your body if you do not use those devices and are not exposed to this radiation in your home. It’s not a difficult thing to do.
It’s just a decision. I gave in the past about 100 lectures in various communities around the country on the effects of this radiation. People, after they have been exposed to the evidence, they understand that it’s time to stop. People are hardwiring their devices and disabled the wireless devices. It’s a decision. I’m doing this work all around the country. I travel and I don’t use smart devices. It’s okay. I’m still able to do all the work I’m doing. You just hardwire your devices through the internet and keep yourself safe. However, again, we still have the problem of the radiation coming from the outside, but the more people are aware of it, the less radiation you’re going to get from your neighbors. Hopefully, as people become educated about the truth about this issue, we’ll be able to stop the deployment of cell towers or remove them from schools, get them away from our neighborhoods, and create change on this issue.
One concern that people have brought to my attention is the concern of satellites being used for 5G technology. They feel overwhelmed by the thought that stuff could be beaming down at us. Radiation could be beamed down at us from the sky. Is that used in 5G technology?
Yeah. Anything that is going to join into this wireless world or what they call the smart grid is a problem. Part of the 5G infrastructure is going to have every device connected wirelessly. That means adding 20 billion devices. To support those 20 billion devices, they want to add 800,000 towers in the next couple of years. In addition, the plans right now are to add 50,000 satellites that will radiate us continuously from the sky. For example, Elon Musk’s company, SpaceX, was approved for 12,000 satellites. They also submitted an application for additional 30,000 satellites and the other companies that submitted applications as well. 50,000 satellites radiating us nonstop in every corner of our planet. However, that’s not all of it. To support that infrastructure, they need to deploy cell towers on the ground. For your device to connect to the satellites, they need an on-the-ground antenna.
Their plan is to deploy 1 million antennas. Children’s Health Defense took action on that as well. Right now, the access intends to expand a rule called over-the-air receiving devices, which will allow people to put cell towers on their homes, including those cell towers to support the satellite’s infrastructure. We want to stop that. We think that that’d be the most effective way to stop the satellite deployment. That’s why the Children’s Health Defense submitted what’s called an expert letter to the FCC. We had a campaign and 16,000 people joined our letter.
We removed that from the website so people can no longer join that effort, but we’re now finalizing everything to submit it to the FCC. We have 16,000 signatures. All of those who joined our letter will be able to join a future lawsuit if we decide to submit a lawsuit if the FCC decides to continue with this effort. It is concerning. It’s important that people get educated, understand what it is, and help us create a massive grassroots to stop this insanity.
I’m grateful for the work. I think about the EU 5G appeal. Wasn’t there a group of scientists around the world pulling together to also lift their voice and protest?
In 2018, over 200 scientists sign an appeal called the Stop 5G appeal. What they said that the harms of wireless technology are proven harms to human animals and the planet. Therefore, they call to stop, to put a moratorium on the deployment of 5G infrastructure. They also write in their appeal that the harms are not potential. They’re existing and they are on an epidemic scale and that inaction is no longer an option. It’s time for us to stop. We cannot continue to expand this. Before, the industry has major power. Now it becomes not only a monetary power over our legislators, Congress, and our government agencies. Now there is a narrative of this is a matter of national security and that we must win the race for 5G against China.
5G is like the excuse for the Cold War in China. We need to win this race. I find it to be a rather dumb narrative because it’s stupid. That will kill our own children before the Chinese kill them. There’s a problem with this narrative. I prefer to lose in this Cold War and stay alive until the Chinese kill me. Sorry for those words, but that’s what’s going on and we need to stop it.
I hear what you’re saying. Let’s say I work for a 5G company. I know the risks, but I’m trying to hide them a little bit because I want to keep making money and getting all this data on people. Wouldn’t I also realize that I’m basically aiming at myself and my own family? In other words, we can’t escape the radiation either. Why aren’t they using some common sense, these people in the 5G corporations?
This is how it will propagate, by using people’s immediate needs to serve their agenda. People need jobs. People need to put food on their family’s table. They use that. When this happens, people use their cognitive dissonance. They don’t want to hear about this and accept that there might be a problem with the work they do. That’s why you see such a massive pushback against what we’re doing. Name-calling that we are conspiracy theories. I don’t know, the National Toxicology Program, the own government agency finding clear evidence of cancer and DNA breakage. I’m not a conspiracy theorist.
I’m using the data that our government has discovered or approved. People have a strong cognitive dissonance. Those companies know exactly how to use people’s weaknesses to advance their agenda. For me, what I see around me is the age of the loss of common sense. That’s exactly how I call it. It is a complete loss of common sense and that’s what’s happening all around us.
There are other factors that play. In other words, you were saying the FCC is a captured agency. I’m thinking some search engines got ties to certain industry because when I did a recent search on a search engine, which I will not mention, the first thing that came up was baseless fears over 5G. That was the top result. I thought, “They have influence, the people who fix the algorithm so that certain things pop up.” If I were to see that first, I think, “It’s a baseless fear about 5G.”
All of those industries are using the same playbook. There’s an amazing video I always use from 1979, where two doctors stand in front of Congress and testified to Congress about alleged cigarette harm. They said, “There’s a real epidemic. It’s an epidemic of smokaphobia perpetuated by public interest groups.” It’s the same narrative. We are creating hysteria and baseless ground. Sadly, the telecom company, not only the government and Congress also own the media. AT&T owns Time Warner, which owns CNN. Verizon owns AOL and Yahoo. Carlos Slim who is a major telecom entrepreneur, one of the richest people in the world, own The New York Times. The Atlantic is owned by Steve Jobs’ widow. Comcast owns NBC.
Our media is controlled by telecom companies. Many social media companies have major interests in wireless technology. Facebook is also involved in test satellites and other wireless infrastructure. Microsoft is involved with wireless infrastructure. Steve Jobs bought about 5.3 million shares and owns about $1 billion of Crown Castle, which is a company that deploys cell towers. He invested about $1 million in a company that’s going to send 500 satellites to do nonstop surveillance all over Earth. Everything that happens in this world will be videotaped nonstop and transmitted in real-time to devices. That’s going to be used by the government.
This is Big Brother watching nonstop, worse than we ever imagined. All of these tech companies are involved. Google is inventing technology that will take us into transhuman, meaning that people will become part machines, part humans. All of these companies have an interest in this. Sadly, we literally cannot believe anything we read anymore.
Be brave and learn the facts about 5G Technology. Knowledge is the beginning of any process.
This is so thought-provoking. I want to dive deeper with you into this whole transhuman concept, not to get too conspiracy theorist, but to understand what’s at stake. Why would 5G be rolling out? What are they trying to do? Do we need this Internet of Things or is it being put on us for a reason?
Again, it’s not a conspiracy theory. These are declared business plans of Google, Facebook, and Microsoft. Robert Kennedy published an article about Gate’s investments in all of these wireless telecom industries. All the information is taken from his financial reports. It’s not a conspiracy. All these are evidence-based and people should think, “Can reducing download speeds pay for $200 billion a year of deployment of wireless?” Clearly not. Something else pays for that and that is your information. Again, go to any investment bank reports and that’s exactly what they’ll tell you. Our data is worth about $11 trillion a year to this industry. That’s what this is about.
Will we dare to talk about why certain videos have been pulled from YouTube and other platforms that have to do with 5G and the Coronavirus?
I’m going to be adamant. Children’s Health Defense has issued a statement in regards to 5G and the Coronavirus. Our position is that we do not see any credible evidence for a connection. We are not working with a hypothesis. We are only relying on clear evidence. There’s more than enough evidence to show that wireless technology and 5G are harmful. I cannot comment on anything beyond that.
I appreciate that you’re evidence-based. I do want to wrap up by asking you the question I often pose at the end. If the reader could do one thing to improve their health, and it may be related to some of the things you said earlier, what would you recommend that we do?
Become brave and go and learn the fact. Knowledge is the beginning of any process. If you asked me in the meanwhile, can you figure out if I’m right with what I say, I suggest better safe than sorry. Turn off your Wi-Fi router and all wireless devices at least at night and opt-out from what’s called smart meters, which are utility meters installed in our homes. In most states around the country, that is possible. Those are the three things I would do, learn, turn off devices, and remove your wireless smart meter from your home.
That is super practical and helpful advice. Thank you so much for your time, Dafna.
Thank you very much, Hilda. Let’s all be safe and healthy.
Our guest was Dafna Tachover. Visit ChildrensHealthDefense.org for pertinent articles and resources on this topic. Now for a letter from one of our supporters. “One evening in the fall of 1999 on a whim, I went to the presentation Oiling of America in New Hampshire. Little did I know how my life would change that night. I walked out of the meeting on cloud nine as my husband put it because I had found someone unafraid to speak the truth regarding nutrition. As a dietician, I had struggled with the low-fat tenets and with the pressure to promote margarine and vegetable oils, intuitively knowing this advice was wrong. WAPF validated my suspicions. I wholly embraced its philosophy. I became a chapter leader and never once looked back. Fast forward nearly twenty years, I now have three children, all WAPF babies, incredibly healthy and bright.”
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About Dafna Tachover
Dafna Tachover is director of the Children’s Health Defense 5G & Wireless Harms Project. She is an attorney in both New York and Israel, has an MBA and is the founder of We Are The Evidence, an advocacy organization for the protection of the rights of the many people who have been injured by wireless technology radiation. She has a technology background including in wireless networks and infrastructures from her service in the Israeli Defense Forces as a telecommunication and computers officer and the commander of the computer center of the IDF’s Operations Center and of its headquarters. She has also worked for an international investment company and for a private equity fund. In 2009, Dafna developed Microwave, a condition that is caused by exposure to wireless technology radiation. Since then, she has dedicated herself to educating the public and public officials regarding the adverse effects of wireless technology radiation and the widespread sickness that exists from it, as well as on its adverse effects on animals, plants and the environment including on the increase in global energy consumption. In 2012 Dafna initiated and led a Supreme Court case in Israel to replace the use of Wi-Fi in schools and install wired internet networks instead — a case that led to the first and strictest limitations on wi-fi use in schools worldwide. She has been working at the federal and state levels, has taken part in numerous public speaking engagements and has been involved in legal actions. She has been consulting in various related lawsuits and represented 94 international organizations in an amicus brief in a U.S. case. In the past three years she has been focusing her energy on stopping the deployment of 5G. Dafna has been one of the leading experts and advocates on this topic globally, featured and interviewed by TIME, CNN, New York Magazine, Newsweek, The Epoch Times and other media and appeared in documentaries about the topic, including in the award-winning documentary “Generation Zapped.”
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