Plant-based, Paleo, Vegan, Keto, Raw — there are so many health trends and fad diets out there! What advice do you take? What diet actually nourishes us the best? And which has stood the test of time? Sally Fallon Morell, the President of the Weston A. Price Foundation, offers clarity as she focuses on the timeless key principles of healthy traditional diets. Indigenous peoples all over the world have dietary and lifestyle customs that served them well for thousands of years. As Weston A. Price noted in the 1930s and 1940s, these traditions enabled them to maintain vibrant health, something we are desperately seeking today.
Sally kicks things off with a look at the common characteristics of the diets of isolated people groups worldwide—that included nutrient-dense foods, ferments, no refined or denatured foods of any kind. She helps us figure out how we can include more of these foods in our diets today. She goes over which fats are healthiest and discusses the dangerous trend of meat-less meats and avoiding animal products altogether.
Check out her blog at nourishingtraditions.com.
Sign up for the Lunch Leader Training Academy.
Learn more about the Weston A. Price Foundation.
Listen to the podcast here:
Timeless Principles Of Healthy Traditional Diets (Part 1)
Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda
Plant-based, paleo, vegan, keto, raw. There are many health trends and fad diets out there. What advice should we take? What diet will nourish us the best? This is Episode 319 and our guest is Sally Fallon Morell, the President of the Weston A. Price Foundation. She is a prolific author and a fervent advocate for real food, raw milk, and healthy living according to ancestral wisdom. Sally offers clarity as she focuses on the timeless key principles of healthy traditional diets. Indigenous peoples all over the world have dietary and lifestyle customs that have served them well for thousands of years. As Weston A. Price noted himself in the 1930s and 1940s, these traditions enabled them to maintain vibrant health. Something we are desperately seeking now.
Sally gives an overview of our most popular brochure, The Timeless Principles of Healthy Traditional Diets. She kicks things off with a look at the work of Dr. Price and the core common characteristics of the diets of isolated people groups worldwide. She includes a discussion of what those foods are, nutrient-dense foods, and ferments. She talks about how we can include more of these foods into our diet. She also goes over which fats have traditionally been the hallmark of healthy population groups worldwide. Finally, she discusses the dangerous trend of meatless meats and avoiding animal products altogether.
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Coming up, Sally points to the fats that have nourished healthy population groups for thousands of years. She emphasizes that the fats that we should be eating are the fats we’ve been told not to eat.
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Check out her blog at NourishingTraditions.com.
Sign up for the Lunch Leader Training Academy.
Learn more about the Weston A. Price Foundation
Welcome to the show, Sally.
Thanks so much for having me.
I’m excited. We’re starting a new series going over all the brochures that the foundation has. We should start with our standard-bearer, the main brochure, which is the Timeless Principles of Healthy Traditional Diets.
This was the first thing that the foundation published. It was designed to provide information on our principles and have a membership form in it. Hopefully, people will be inspired to become members. We’ve printed almost a million copies now. It’s been a wonderful teaching tool and membership recruitment tool.
It is fantastic and it is full of so much information. It starts with an overview of who Dr. Price is and his work.
Before I even launch in there, it’s a good idea for members and especially chapter leaders to read this brochure once a year. You’re always surprised by what you have forgotten or what you remember. We start with a little biography of Weston Price. After all, our foundation is named after Weston Price. It honors the pioneering research that he did in the 1930s and 1940s, culminating in his book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Hilda, I’ve been reading some old articles from the early 1930s in which Dr. Price is mentioned. These articles are discussing tooth decay, which had already become a huge problem in modern societies. These articles are particularly focused on raw milk as being important to prevent tooth decay.
The genius of Dr. Price is that he looked beyond one single food or a couple of foods. He looked at the whole diets of traditional people all over the world, some of which had milk but some of which didn’t. All of these diets prevented tooth decay. The ones with more animal products were better than the diets of the plant-based people. All of them had virtually no tooth decays. That’s in comparison with the West where it was rampant.
It’s not that these indigenous people were doing this amazing dental hygiene routine, flossing and mouthwash, and tooth brushing.
They never brushed their teeth. He described the teeth of the Swiss children as covered with green slime. They naturally had healthy teeth without tooth decay. Dr. Price looked at beyond tooth decay. Tooth decay was the outward sign of good health because it’s something inside the body that you can see. He looked at the whole health of the population, their bone structure, ease of childbirth and reproduction, and their lack of any chronic or acute diseases. He peeked into their wise traditions. We’ve got a lot further with that as a foundation because after all, Dr. Price was working quickly and he was especially focused on the teeth. The genius of Dr. Price was he took the teeth as a starting point for developing the formula for the good health of the whole body.
What comes to my mind is that old saying, “The eyes are the window to the soul.” Dr. Price said, “The teeth tell the tale.” They showed that something was off in the body.
The teeth are the window to the whole body.
We have in here not only his story but some photographs.
We have permission from the Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation, which owns the copyright to Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, to publish some of these photographs. We have a few photograph pairs in the booklet. The first one is Native American Seminoles living in the Florida Everglades. That was wonderful that Price could get these photographs before they disappeared. The girl on the left is eating the traditional foods, which are foods of the hunt, fish, and alligators. She has beautiful straight teeth, a wide face, and good facial development. The girl on the right has the same genetics. One generation later, her parents started eating white man’s food. She has a narrow face and crowded teeth. That happened in one generation. We know this is not genetic. This change is not genetic, although a lot of people say it is. It is a change in diet.
If you open your eyes and look at people now, you can see all around the world that people’s faces are narrow, their teeth are crowded. It’s not a question of what part of the world you’re from but it’s a question of how nourishing your diet is.
It’s been called the epidemic of narrow jaws. There’s a book written called Jaws but they completely dismiss Dr. Price’s findings. They said Dr. Price describes this phenomenon but he said it had to do with nutrition. We know that’s not true. We know it’s from eating soft foods. In other words, the people who had good wide faces were eating hard foods and people with narrow faces were eating soft foods. They never explained how the hard foods could give you a healthy body overall, wide pelvic opening for easy childbirth, good bone structure, keen eyesight, and all that. It doesn’t make sense.
Dr. Price had a strong case for the fact that nutrition makes a difference in this genetic expression. What’s next in the booklet, Sally?
The next thing is our eleven principles of healthy traditional diets. It’s something that we are expanding on. We’re going to publish a whole booklet on this. We have these eleven principles. What we say is we are not a dietary scheme that tells you exactly what to eat or what proportions of fats, carbohydrates, and proteins. It’s not like that at all because there are tremendous variations in these traditional diets. You had the Eskimo diet, which was largely meat and fish. You had the South Sea diet that had a lot of carbohydrates. You had the diet of the Swiss people who had milk and grains. Yet all of these people were healthy, had healthy teeth, virtually no cavities, and good bone structure and body structure. It doesn’t make sense for us to say, “You have to eat this or that.”
Some people that like these prescriptive diets later find them restrictive. In other words, they feel limited by it and constrained. It’s like, “I can only have this many carbs or this much fat and I want something else.” What’s nice is this is an overarching guideline for a healthy diet.
Sometimes they get on a certain diet which is telling you to eat, for example, a lot of shellfish. Some people are allergic to shellfish. Every person has to tweak the diet to fit their tastes, sensitivities, needs, and budget. It will always end with what their children will eat. If you’re fixing these foods and your children won’t eat them, they’re not doing any good.
We’ve done a whole series, individual shows, about each of these eleven characteristics. Which would you say is the most important, Sally?
I emphasized principle number three. To summarize, the first one is no processed foods. The second one is no vegan diets. They all had animal foods. The third one is the most important because everything hangs on this and it was the nutrient density. These diets were high in minerals. They had at least four times more of every mineral in their diets compared to the modern diet of Dr. Price’s day. They were extremely high in what we call the fat-soluble activators. This is where we put our real emphasis on the foundation, vitamins A, D, and K.
Where do we get these fat-soluble activators? We get them from the fats of grass-fed animals, organ meats, especially of grass-fed animals, and certain types of seafood. That’s about it. These have to be in your diet in one way or another. We encourage people to eat organ meats. Find a way to like liver. The liver is the most nutrient-dense food, whether it’s pâté, liver and onions, or canned cod livers. We especially recommend cod liver oil. That’s for your A and D. For the vitamin K, those are the land animal fats, butter. Poultry fats are particularly rich and poultry liver. You got your goose liver pâté, that’s a good food to be eating.
Traditional peoples knew that there was a treasure in the organ meats. You’ve told me they would throw away the muscle meats and give those to the dogs.
Typically, let’s say Native Americans are on the hunt for the buffalo. When they killed a buffalo, they were not interested in the steaks and the rows. They immediately remove the brain, bone marrow, liver, and tongue, and those were eaten immediately. They made a pudding with the stomach of the animal where they put the meat in the fat, the blood, and the rest of the organ meats, especially the lungs, all cut up fine. This wasn’t hard food. This was nice and soft and easy to eat. It was salty because they put blood in it. It was like haggis. They smoked it over the fire. That was a good meal for them.
It sounds nourishing but different from what we eat now.
I often say that the key difference between healthy traditional cultures and unhealthy modern cultures is the traditional cultures ate the whole animal. They ate the organ meats, bones, they made broth with the bones, they ate the blood. They ate everything in the animal and they ate the fat. The part that we’re throwing away.
I’m thankful that now there is a movement, people are talking about eating nose to tail. Sometimes modernity or science catches up to ancient wisdom.
I’m pleased to see the push. For example, getting liver back into sausage. It’s illegal to call something sausage that has liver in it. You’d have to call it liverwurst or something like that. For Europeans, this is normal. This is how they get their organ meats. They eat sausage. They have lung sausage and liver sausage and all these great sausages.
Why don’t you give us more of an overview of all of the principles? You talked about 1, 2, and 3. What’s next?
Some of the other principles are all cultures cooked but they all ate some animal foods raw, so cooked and raw. They had high food enzyme content from fermented foods. Every single traditional culture in the world had fermented foods. The next one is important. It has to do with the proper preparation of grains and legumes. These are foods that are in all these traditional cultures but they’re hard to digest. Traditional peoples understood this instinctively and fermented these foods, sour them, soak them, sprouted them, all sorts of processes to make these foods more digestible. We’re not one of these groups that tells you not to eat grains. Grains are in many traditional cultures but they need to be prepared properly.
We talked about the importance of minimizing polyunsaturated oils and getting lots of saturated fat in your diet, having a balance of omega-6 and omega-3. That means the balance of land and sea animals. Making sure we get plenty of salt. The salt should be unrefined salt, full of minerals. Making use of the bones to make bone broth that we find universally. Finally, to prepare for the next generation by special feeding before conception, eating nutrient-dense foods during pregnancy, breastfeeding, and then nutrient-dense foods for the child during the period of growth.
That’s interesting to me because I feel like the way we prepare now for pregnancy is we get off birth control and start taking little prenatal supplements.
You find out you’re pregnant and then you take a prenatal vitamin pill. It is important to prepare before conception so that you have all these nutrients available from the moment that baby is conceived because all things are happening to form the organs and the systems in the body.
What were some of the foods that Dr. Price noticed across a variety of cultures they were providing to the people of the childbearing years?
One was liver. All traditional cultures made sure that expectant parents ate liver. Fats were another one, especially butterfat. He noted that in Switzerland when they first went to pasture in the spring, the butter was a deep yellow color. When he tested this butter, he found it was high in these three fat-soluble vitamins, A, D, and K. That was considered an important food for young people to consume before they were married. When they posted their banns on the church that they were going to get married, that’s when they started making sure they got plenty of this butter.
Since we’re talking about butter, let’s talk about fats because there is confusion about what are the best fats to eat.
We have a little sidebar about confused about fats and which fats we should eat. You can memorize this list. We don’t have to get technical about why. The interesting thing is that the fats that we should be eating are the fats that we’re being told not to eat. When you eat these good fats, you’re not eating the vegetable oils which is what they want you to buy. For cooking and eating, it’s butter. Tallow and suet from beef and lamb. Lard from pigs. Lard is an extremely healthy fat. It’s such a shame that we have stopped using lard. You can’t even get lard in the supermarkets anymore. Chicken, goose, and duck fat, and then the naturally saturated plant fats such as coconut palm and palm kernel oils. These are the stable healthy fats that have been consumed all over the world for generations.
For your salads, extra virgin olive oil, sesame and peanut oils in small amounts are fine and a tiny bit of flax oil for omega-3 in small amounts. For your fat-soluble vitamins, these are the fish liver oils like cod liver oil. We warn people against fish oils because these are industrial fats that are highly processed and rancid from the beginning. The bad fats, the trans fats, everyone knows about that, the liquid vegetable oils, the so-called cooking oils, any fat or oil that’s been heated to high temperatures.
I’ve heard you say before, it’s important to get our fat straight. This affects almost every function in the body.
The first thing we recommend that people do if they’re trying to improve their diet and health is to get their fats right, that is, start using the right kind of fats.
We have our principles, Sally, but we also have some guidelines in this booklet. Why is that?
These are pretty much an expansion of the principles and aimed at the Western eater and the kinds of foods that we would eat in the West. They have to do with eating pasture-based animal foods, raw milk, plenty of butter, taking cod liver oil, choosing organic when we buy fruits and vegetables, and properly preparing our grain so that would be sourdough. We stress organic whole grains to avoid any glyphosate in them. Eating fermented foods such as sauerkraut, good clean water, and unrefined salt. One thing we recommend is to make your own salad dressing. The first thing you need to learn to do as a cook is to make your salad dressing and not buy the bottled dressings, which are a horrifying list of ingredients starting with the cheapest possible oils.
Another one has to do with sweeteners. This is not a diet where we say you can’t have any sweet things. Sweet things in moderation are fine. We recommend that you use natural sweeteners like maple syrup and honey. Same with alcohol, we’re not going to tell you that you can’t drink a glass of wine. Wine and beer, unpasteurized, in moderation. Your cookware, don’t cook in aluminum. Use food-based supplements. Get plenty of sleep, exercise, and natural light. The last one is to think positive thoughts and practice forgiveness. We get the spiritual aspect in there as well.
Going back to the food stuff. It can sound overwhelming to the person who’s new to this. Properly prepared grains, animal fats like lard and tallow, you can’t get some of these things at the supermarket. Where should they go to get some guidance on how to apply all of this stuff?
We have a system of local chapters all over the country. We recommend you go to our website. Find your nearest local chapter and they’ll be able to tell you where you can get raw milk, good pastured eggs, where you can buy lard, where you can get all these products near you.
It’s no comparison when you mentioned eggs, I couldn’t help but think about it. I got some eggs from Joel’s Farm and the yolk was such a rich, vibrant orangey color. The ones in the supermarket are pale in comparison.
Once you get on this diet, it becomes second nature to you, first of all. Secondly, you find that it’s quite easy. We’re not asking you to do anything hard, and because this diet is nourishing and satisfying, a lot of people find that their cravings go away naturally. You don’t have to say stop eating sugar. We say start eating this diet. You’ll find that your cravings for things like sugar, cigarettes, or alcohol go down because you’re well-nourished.
Sally, why did we get away from this kind of eating in the first place? Our grandparents or our great grandparents probably ate this way.
It was a deliberate campaign by the food processing industry. Before 1850, the only processed food we had was sugar and even that was causing havoc. We started to get all of these additives. They figured out how to make breakfast cereals and vegetable oils. I always point out vegetable oils are completely new to the human diet. We didn’t have them before 1900. There was so much profit in vegetable oils that they went on this huge campaign to demonize the competition. The competition was lard, butter, and tallow. They got rid of all these healthy stable fats and pushed the vegetable oils for so-called health reasons without letting the population know that these oils were dangerous for our health.
I’ve been to remote villages in Africa and I know you’ve traveled as well. I’ve seen them cooking in these rancid oils.
That’s the first thing that reaches them. There’s a great video on YouTube, it’s something called Mosquito Hamburgers. They catch mosquitoes and make a hamburger with them. The mosquitoes are healthy to eat but they’re cooking them in vegetable oil. These vegetable oils have reached every corner of the Earth, unfortunately.
They have been touted as an improvement over traditions.
I remember reading an article years ago about China and how they were clamping down on what they called the outdoor markets and making it difficult to have outdoor markets. They showed somebody shopping in a supermarket. They were standing in front of the shelves of modern vegetable oils. The Chinese cooked in pig fat and duck fat. Those were their two traditional fats, healthy fats. They’ve abandoned those for canola oil.
It’s such a shame. The marketers have their reasons for pushing but they can’t push something on the people they don’t want. We’ve accepted the convenience and we’ve bought some of the stuff they’re selling.
In our local supermarket, they have butter but they don’t have lard anymore. It’s on the highest shelf of the spread section. These huge tubs of “heart-healthy spreads.” That’s what almost everyone buys.
You’ve told us, though, if we spend more of our food budget with local farms, we’re voting with our dollars for what we want.
In addition to promoting these healthy foods, we’re also promoting the farmers who produce them. We have something called the 50% Campaign, where we urge everyone to spend 50% of their food dollars with direct purchases from local farmers.
It’s satisfying on a personal connection level too, isn’t it?
Yes. We are creating a whole new food system in the United States.
We have the dietary guidelines. Let’s pivot and talk about the dietary dangers. What are those?
There are obvious ones like refined sweeteners, vegetable oils, and additives. One of the dietary dangers is veganism. I can’t stress enough that veganism is not a healthy diet. Plant foods lack many of the nutrients that you can only get from animal foods. If you’re a vegan, you’re not going to get these nutrients. It might not show up right away. It might take 2 or 3 years for your body to show these deficiencies. It’s a particularly dangerous lifestyle for having children.
Sally, some people say you’re saying this because you’re somehow a part of the meatpacking company. You’ve got investments in the meatpacking industry.
We do not think that any food should be produced by an industry, not our animal foods and not our plant foods. These plant foods that they’re promoting like The Impossible Burger, are industrial foods. I’m all for the industry when it comes to making airplanes, computers, cars, and everything we need industry for that. We’re grateful to have industry for that, but the industry should not be producing our food.
That’s a different sector of the economy. When industry produces food, their goal is a profit. Our goal from eating food is to be healthy. That’s not the same as the industry goal.
Some people say these meatless meats are better for us and better for the planet.
They’re wrong. They’re not better for us and for the planet. These meatless meats require vast soybean farms that are sprayed with all kinds of poisons poisoning the Earth, whereas beef raised properly with managed grazing improves the soil and puts life back into the soil.
The proof is in the pudding.
The proof is in the soil.
This has been a great conversation. We’re going to have to do part two on this booklet because there’s so much here. Thank you for your time, Sally.
Thank you, Hilda.
Our guest was Sally Fallon Morell. Visit her blog NourishingTraditions.com so you can learn more about ancestral wisdom.
For a letter to the editor from a journal. “Autistic no longer. I am so thankful for the Weston A. Price Foundation. It is because of one of my friends, I went to a presentation by Dr. Natasha Campbell-McBride several years ago. I shared the information with my wife and daughter who was able to have a full recovery from autism even having a psychologist reassess her and take her diagnosis away. I’m concerned about potential efforts to mandate the Coronavirus vaccines, whether it be by governments or by churches, schools, businesses, or employers. Due to this concern, I wrote a paper that tells my daughter’s story and recounts the journey that brought us to where we are on vaccines while weaving it together with alarming facts about vaccine safety. My goal was to tell a story that would be compelling to people who are neutral or on the other side.”
Thank you for your attention to the dangers of 5G wireless technology. It seems that the government is moving ahead on placing 5G towers everywhere. According to the Biodynamic Association’s news magazine, precision agriculture is the term used to describe farm management conducted with the use of information technology. I translate that as big brother managing farms with the use of 5G microwave technology. A proposed legislation indicates the government’s intention to promote the expanded deployment of fixed and mobile broadband internet access on unserved agricultural land. This is all part of their plan to put 5G technology everywhere until it kills us all.
We also received a notice of information classes from the University of Idaho. The October 2019 offering entitled Off the Grid highlights emerging mobile data technology and natural resources for situational awareness communication, real-time positioning, and wearable technology. I would translate this as telling us how they plan to put 5G towers in our forests so they can watch what we are doing, increase cell phone coverage, know exactly where we are at any time, and provide Internet connection for the Internet of Things.
We need to get people off their behinds before 5G is turned on in their towns. I believe those in Britain and in many US cities already online are finding it is already too late to save themselves. This is a letter from Anne from Idaho. Anne, that is chilling. We’re thankful that you’re shining a light on what is happening. Maybe this will light a fire behind us to get active on this issue. Remember that if you become a member, we will send you action alerts pertinent to your state wherever you live so that you can know how to move in the fight against 5G and for other protections. Thank you so much for reading. If you care too, you can also write a letter to the editor, which we can include in our journal. Write it, courtesy of Info@WestonAPrice.org and put letter to the editor in the subject line. Thanks again for listening. Stay well, my friend. Hasta pronto.
Sally Fallon Morell, MA, President, is best known as the author of the best-selling cookbook, Nourishing Traditions®: The Cookbook that Challenges Politically Correct Nutrition and the Diet Dictocrats. This well-researched, thought-provoking guide to traditional foods contains a startling message: animal fats and cholesterol are not villains but vital factors in the diet, necessary for normal growth, proper function of the brain and nervous system, protection from disease and optimum energy levels.
Sally Fallon Morell is founding president of the Weston A. Price Foundation and editor of the Foundation’s quarterly magazine. She also founded A Campaign for Real Milk (www.realmilk.com). At its inception in 1998, the website listed only twenty-eight sources of raw milk in the U.S. Today there are over two thousand, with many hundreds more not listed. Raw milk is the fastest growing agricultural product in the US; this growth has been largely stimulated by the information provided at realmilk.com.
She is also president and owner of NewTrends Publishing, serving as editor and publisher of many fine books on diet and health, including other books in the Nourishing Traditions® series.
Her latest book, co-authored with Thomas S. Cowan, MD, is The Contagion Myth: Why Viruses (including “Coronavirus”) Are Not the Cause of Disease (Skyhorse Publishing 2020).
In 2009, Sally and her husband Geoffrey Morell embarked on a new venture: they purchased a farm in Southern Maryland. P. A. Bowen Farmstead is a mixed-species, pasture-based farm that produces award-winning artisan raw cheese, whey-fed woodlands pork, pastured poultry and pastured eggs. The farm does not use corn, soy, GMOs, pesticides, herbicides, hormones or antibiotics.
Sally received a Bachelor’s Degree in English with honors from Stanford University, and a Masters Degree in English with high honors from UCLA. She speaks French and Spanish. Her interests include music, gardening, metaphysics . . . and of course cooking. She lives in Brandywine, MD with her husband Geoffrey Morell. She is the mother of four and has four beautiful grandchildren, all brought up according to Nourishing Traditions® principles.
- The Timeless Principles of Healthy Traditional Diets
- Heal Your Gut Cookbook
- School of Lunch
- Training Academy
- The Truth About COVID-19
- Oneness vs. the 1%
- Toxic Legacy: How the Weedkiller Glyphosate Is Destroying Our Health and the Environment
- Nutrition and Physical Degeneration
- Price-Pottenger Nutrition Foundation
- Mosquito Hamburgers – YouTube
- 50% Campaign
- Biodynamic Association
- Free Info Pack
- Earth Runners
- Wise Traditions – Apple Podcasts