What could possibly persuade someone to go from vegetarian to butcher? Kate Kavanaugh tells what shifted in her that led to this profound lifestyle and dietary change. Kate is indeed a butcher, and also a farmer, and the host of the Mind, Body, and Soil podcast, among other initiatives.
Today, she shares insights on our place in the complex web of nourishment. Among other things, she conveys her realization that what we eat becomes us, in a very real sense; how the seasons affect the fat and protein on an animal’s body; and how uncomfortable we feel with the death of animals…and just plain death, period. Kate also gets practical as she explains the process of processing (what happens to our meat before it hits our table) and how to find farms near us, wherever we live.
and her podcast Mind, Body, and Soil
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Within the below transcript the bolded text is Hilda
What turned a vegetarian and full-fledged city girl into a butcher? Our guest is Kate Kavanaugh. Kate is a butcher, a farmer, and the host of the Mind, Body, and Soil Podcast, among other initiatives. In this episode, Kate tells us about her lifestyle and dietary shift to butchery and farming. She shares her process which includes the change in her perception of our place in the complex web of nourishment.
Her insights that come from her research and experience in farming and butchery include how what we eat becomes us in a very real sense, how the seasons affect the fat and the protein on an animal’s body, and how uncomfortable we feel with death of animals, and just play and death period. Kate also gets into the difference between a butcher shop and a processing plant. She explains why farmers hit red tape when it comes to butchering their own livestock.
Before we dive into the conversation, I want to invite you to make an investment in your own health by purchasing more of your food from local farms. It’s good for you and for the economy in your community. Take the 50% pledge. Spend at least half of your food budget supporting local farms. It’s a simple way to keep farms that are doing it right afloat. Do you want to learn more about our 50% pledge challenge? Find resources and more information on our website WestonAPrice.org/50-50-pledge.
Make the 50% pledge – resources on our website.
Welcome to Wise Traditions, Kate.
It is such a pleasure to be here, Hilda. It was so nice to get to meet you in person before we ventured to do this.
I liked you immediately. Number one, because we have common friends from the Larsons but also because you have alliteration in your name Kate Kavanaugh. I like to go by Holistic Hilda, so I’m like, “This girl is a woman after my own heart.”
I love a little bit of alliteration.
That’s awesome. I know you’ve had a lot of life-and-death experiences on the farm. I want to ask you about what happened with your little goat last November. Let’s kick things off with that story.
I have this story about a goat. We raise some grass-fed goats for both meat and dairy here on our little farm in Upstate New York. I had a goat and his name was Texas. He was not meant for the food system. He wasn’t going to go into food production. He was a goat that I had bonded with and grown to love. He died in a tragic farm accident. Farmers will know that sometimes things happen that you couldn’t have foreseen coming.
It’s a little bit of a sad story and I’ll tell you what it has led to for me. He died in a tragic accident and we had to make a decision about what to do with his body, whether or not we were going to bury him or if we were going to put him in the freezer. This is going to maybe sound a little foreign to people that might run farms, and it would be the best way to honor his life. For us, it felt like a space where we could honor our relationship with Texas, and allow him to nourish us into the coming months and the coming year.
We butchered him. I am a butcher by trade, and it was a beautiful act of intimacy. Something that I think a lot about is how intimate our relationship with food is and what we perceive as other, or these things outside the boundary of our skin, become us in this act of eating where our digestive tract is outside of our body. It’s continuous with your skin, and from your mouth to your anus.
As we digest our food, the elements, vitamins, and particles that make up our food diffuse across a one-cell wall thick lining in our intestines. They become part of us and part of this elegant conversation that’s constantly happening with all of the environment around us. This moment with Texas was a big moment for me to explore that intimacy that we have with our food in a much deeper way, and the intimacy with death in our food, as well as to explore what the difference is between self and others, and what it means to be nourished.
This is so fascinating already, Kate. One thing I love about you is that you like to go deep. I have not given much thought to how the food we eat becomes us, and I’m a person in this space. It becomes a part of who we are. That is fascinating to think about.
It informs us. It changes us on an epigenetic level. What we’re eating is a conversation with our environment and with our biology. Even from the standpoint of breath, every breath that we take in contains oxygen that was once a part of plant tissues. It contains different microbes that will become a part of our microbiome. Every breath out, we exhale carbon dioxide that becomes a part of those plant tissues. There’s this constant act of transformation of matter that’s happening within our food system, and this reciprocity, exchange, and surrender with our environment.
What we’re eating is a conversation with our environment. It’s a conversation with our biology.
You’ve already given me pause. I don’t think I ever want to eat a Dorito again because I don’t want a Dorito to become me, or me to become a Dorito.
I like that thought. That’s a good extension of this thought process.
and You’re right. The idea that you would be honoring beautiful Texas’s body by allowing him to nourish you may be foreign to some of our audience who don’t live on a farm. They don’t give much thought to farming, homesteading, or even butchering.
It was foreign to me. I grew up as a city kid and a vegetarian. These were very foreign concepts to me. I have sought it out because I’m curious about this connection that we have with our food, and the depth that we can find in that relationship.
Let’s talk a little bit about how a city girl and a vegetarian turned into this farming girl that’s now a butcher too.
This was an impetus for my health. I’ll keep my backstory pretty short. When I was a teenager, I had been a vegetarian for almost fifteen years, as I approached age twenty. I was experiencing a lot of different health issues. I don’t think it’s a very uncommon story. I had gastrointestinal issues, mood issues, and fatigue issues.
I wanted to find a different state of health and I kept feeling called into meat. I decided that if I was going to eat meat again after all this time as a vegetarian, what I truly wanted was to be in connection with my food. I sought out these relationships with farmers and ranchers. I became fascinated by our food system. This was almost fifteen years ago now.
The word regenerative wasn’t even in the cultural lexicon. This was a different time, but those were the farms and ranches that I was seeking out that had these holistic land management practices. The more I learned about our food system, the more I wanted to learn, to be a tangible part of that, and to put my hands on it as it were.
I sought out an apprenticeship in butchery and became a butcher 12 or 13 years ago. My husband and I opened up a small whole animal. It’s a little bit different than what you might see at the grocery store. We bring in the whole animal. We break down everything in-house directly from farmers and ranchers with these holistic land management practices in Colorado called Western Daughters. I’ve been a butcher for that time. It dovetailed into farming, becoming a nutrition therapist, and wanting to explore in-depth every component of our food system.
I don’t know if we’ll get to explore in this conversation every component of the food system because it is this intricate web. Let’s start with the part about butchery. Let’s talk about some things that may surprise the audience and me, and that maybe surprised you at first. I’m thinking about the fact that meat and fat shift with the seasons, for example. Can you tell us a little bit about that aspect of what you see in the animal when you go to process it?
One of the things I like to tell people about butchery is it’s this beautiful opportunity to see an animal’s life, and raising practices from the inside out. You can see what they’ve been eating. That phytochemical richness manifests in the meat and fat of these animals. It shows you this relationship between what your food is eating and what your food ate. This is a perfect example of it.
We talk about phytochemical richness, which we generally associate with fruits, vegetables, and anthocyanins in something like a blueberry. There are also these secondary compounds. It’s something that Dr. Stephan van Vliet calls the dark matter of nutrition. Fred Provenza has spent a lot of time looking at these secondary compounds that are in plant tissues that go into animal tissues.
Carotenoids are a good example of this. We associate carotenoids with things like orange bell peppers or carrots, giving them that yellow color. In different seasons, grasses will have different concentrations of these carotenoids and many other phytochemicals. That will lend that rich yellow color to fat. You can see this shift throughout the seasons. You can see this phytochemical richness in the meat and in the fat, and the way that animal is changing in relationship to its environment, and what’s happening in that season as we opened with.
When we see fat on a steak that we’re eating, or I’m thinking of some lamb that I had in Mongolia, the more yellow it is, the richer it is in beta carotene. Is that right?
Yes, but I do like to put a little caveat on this. Yellow fat is not indicative. It’s associated oftentimes that a 100% grass-fed and grass-finished animal will have yellow fat, and that grain-finished animals only have white fat. In my experience butchering many thousands of animals, this is not true. It varies with those carotenoids that are present in grasses and it can shift throughout the season. It can shift regionally as well. In the Northeast, you’re going to see much yellower fat on grass-fed animals. Out West, it’s going to be something that is largely seasonal. There will be times when you see a whiter fat on these grass-fed animals.
You can’t judge necessarily by the color of the fat what grazing system this animal has been on.
That’s helpful. I’ve also heard you say that butchering makes you feel more connected to the animals and the food system rather than less. Can you go into that a little bit?
We have been connected to our food. Food has been so much a part of our daily life for most of human history. We are one of 40,000 generations of hunters. We would’ve spent a lot of our time hunting, gathering, and processing our foodstuff. That leads to a depth of connection and relationship with that. It’s the same way in butchery. While there’s a lot of gatekeeping in the butcher world, anybody with reverence for an animal and hope of doing their best can be a butcher.
We have been connected to our food and food has been so much of a part of our daily life for most of human history.
I don’t think it’s inaccessible. It’s something that’s in our bones. It gives us that connection with our food, and also a connection with our own bodies. Every time I do a butcher demonstration, one of my favorite things is to highlight that we have all of the same muscles. They are just organized differently. I illustrate for someone where the diaphragm is in the body and connect it back to this biology that we share with many mammals and creatures here on Earth.
That very thought makes some people feel uncomfortable, doesn’t it?
Yes, it is too close. We use the term too close to home to imagine that, and to then have that complicated thing where part of our food system is death. To look at that is to look at your own mortality. It is to look at the way that not just animal agriculture in the conventional setting and concentrated animal feeding operations have been obfuscated, but death has also been obfuscated. It’s not just in agriculture but in our world of hospice and hospitals. We don’t undertake our dead anymore. That feels like a point in our food system that has a lot of tension, some fear, and some reflection that’s uncomfortable.
Maybe that’s why we’re more comfortable buying food, especially meat, in little styrofoam packages covered with plastic. It’s sanitized. We don’t see the blood. We don’t see what the animal went through. We have no relationship with that animal at all until we eat it.
It’s very disembodied. It feels like something that could have come from a pork chop tree. It has been reduced to this constituency of just being a piece of meat. We don’t consider the life it might have lived, the body that it came from, or the people and the hands that touch that meat along the way in the food system.
Because of all your studies, I feel like you have insights that perhaps not every butcher would have. For example, I know you understand a lot about the ratios of different nutrients in some of the meat, especially when we consume the whole animal. Can you talk about that a little bit?
I know you’ve been talking to Dr. Bill Schindler. Bill does a beautiful job of talking about this as well. When we’re looking at eating the whole animal, that includes the organ meat where you have this incredible nutrient density. As Bill puts it, we begin to change a little bit as homo sapiens when we have access to those organs because they are so nutrient-dense.
I also think that one of the gifts that I’ve been given as a butcher is an opportunity to explore cuts from the whole animal. This includes a lot more collagen and the amino acid glycine that we associate with collagen. We’ve moved into a space where we eat a lot of lean muscle meat. Probably not your audience. There’s some knowledge out there, but we eat a lot of lean muscle meat that’s rich in methionine.
When we go back to slow cooking, roasts, and these cuts that you might not otherwise think about. I think about my favorites, shank and chuck rolls. I love a flat iron that has not had the tendon taken out. It hasn’t been denuded. It’s got that rich tendon in there. You slow cook it until that tendon turns to jelly, giving us this perfect complement of nutrients. Nature doesn’t make mistakes. We have been eating these collagen-rich foods for a long time.
What were some of the cuts that you hadn’t experienced until you became a butcher and started realizing, “We should be eating the whole animal? Let me try this?” Did you have trepidation?
I didn’t. I was filled with curiosity. I jumped in with both feet. I wanted to experience everything. I went after some of the cuts that are the least used in those initial years. I wanted to try tongue, shank, and tail. I wanted to make head cheese, and all of these different things that had never been a part of my diet, or even my vocabulary. Those are still some of my most beloved cuts.
I also want to say this. The thing I cook the most at home is ground beef. Not only is it collagen-rich because you’re getting some of those off-cuts that are a little bit tougher, and you’re mechanically tenderizing them in the ground beef process, but it’s also the most abundant. That’s what farmers and ranchers have the most excess of. It’s also the least expensive. We eat a lot of ground beef in our house.
I love a good burger. I love ground beef so much. I love it when it has organ meats blended in because I’m getting the benefits more of those off-cuts of the animal. They are so nutrient-dense, but they’re mixed with something I’m familiar with. It tastes great.
I love this. I love the act of hiding little things in ground meat. It’s a great way to go and a great way to get that nutrient density while still enjoying the texture and the flavor of something.
The act of hiding little things in ground meat is a great way to go and a great way to get that nutrient density while still enjoying the texture and the flavor of something.
Coming up, Kate goes over the history of why there are so few butcher shops in the United States.
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Kate, I was in Europe last fall. In France, there were butcher shops on the corner. There were open-air markets. In Greece, there were markets with rows and rows of meat and fish. Why is this scene so little in the US?
There is a long historical influence of why this is the case. There’s a real pivot point at a couple of different places. Number one, at the end of World War II, when we start doing more concentrated animal feeding operations, that begins to centralize the system. It begins to centralize processing and more of the grocery stores and consumer shopping habits.
Under Nixon, you have the Secretary of Agriculture, Earl Butz, who says, “Get big or get out,” asking farmers and ranchers to grow and consolidate. That flows all the way down to our shopping habits. We lost this idea of butcher shops here in the United States earlier than in most places. It’s something that you don’t see as much but there has been a return to them to some degree in the last ten years.
You see a little bit more on the East Coast but there are some great butcher shops spread throughout the United States that are practicing this whole animal. Everything is broken down in-house, as opposed to the grocery store or some other butcher shops that order in cases just the parts the customers want. My favorite example of this is that you only have about a pound of hanger steak on an entire animal. To order a case of 40 hanger steaks, that’s 40 animals worth of meat. In a whole animal butcher shop, you have more constraints. At the same time, you also have an opportunity for more creativity.
This takes me back to Texas, not the state but your goat. I’m thinking you were honoring him too because you didn’t want to waste him. In the US and our dietary habits now, we’ve moved away from organ meats and from honoring the whole animal. We moved toward boneless and skinless chicken breasts.
That’s important to note. In this system, there’s a lot of food waste. There’s 30% to 40% of all food that is wasted that just ends up in landfills anyway. Even the yields on butchery. I want to say that I love processors. They’re amazing, but what we do at the butcher shop is we get higher yields on what we use and what we utilize. It’s about 87% of the animal compared to the industry standard which is 67% wanting to use each piece. Not to push back on this, I will say that the conventional system is excellent at efficiency. While they find places for all of that to go, it looks a lot different.
Can you explain the difference between a butcher shop or a butchery and a processing plant?
Everything that we butcher at the shop has already been killed, skinned, and gutted. In some butcher shops, these words are used interchangeably at times, where a processor or a slaughterhouse might also go as a butcher shop. Those are all terms for the process of you bring live animals in. They are killed, skinned, gutted, and maybe turned into meat and steaks. There are various sizes of these processors throughout the United States from the very big. They’re going through 15,000 to 20,000 animals a day in three shifts, to the very small, where they’re only doing 5, 10, 40, or 100. There are all different kinds of scales within that system.
I wanted to ask you about processing because I’ve gotten to know more and more farmers over the years, as you can imagine. There seems to be some backup or issue with processing. In other words, they have to transport their cattle or their chicken miles away to get them killed, skinned, and all the things you were saying. Why is that?
Just like we’ve seen consolidation in everything else, we’ve seen consolidation in processing. Now you have these massive processors that are doing all these animals. That feeds into they are vertically integrated. They own every part of the system. We’ve lost a lot of our smaller processors. You see these bottlenecks in farmers or ranchers that are having to book out processing dates two years in advance, which is wild.
Processors that have closed in rural areas, we’re seeing a need for them certainly now. There is a very big need, and they are such an important part of our food system. We talked a little bit about this before we recorded, but we don’t often talk about our processors. We might wear T-shirts and hats repping our favorite farmers. Because it has so much to do with death, this little piece has been tucked away and hidden. It isn’t something that we discuss as much.
I’m glad we’re talking about it now. It’s important to address now those who may be like me who don’t have land, and who don’t understand why the bottlenecks or how we can help ease the bottlenecks. Is there legislation or an approach that we can take to minimize the regulations, or make it easier for farmers to process their own animals if they choose to?
This is a big question I’m asking myself. I want to say at the outset that I don’t have all the answers. I have some thoughts. Legislation can move the dial. I was part of changing some legislation around poultry processing in Colorado 7 or 8 years ago, where they had superseded Federal guidelines for processing poultry on farms. It was trying to get them to adopt Federal guidelines, and spent three years, trying to move the needle, and it finally passed.
I do think that is one way that we can get involved. It’s important to note that legislation is different from state to state. There is both state processing and there is USDA processing. Some states will have both, and some will just have USDA processing. This is something to get involved with. There are some incredible examples being set in Wyoming, which has very liberal laws around processing, who it can be sold to, and where it was processed.
There’s also an incredible example. We were talking about this. It’s either North or South Dakota where Dan O’Brien with Wild Idea Buffalo Company is. He is able to shoot his bison on the farm in the field and then has a certain number of hours to transport them to the USDA facility for them to be further processed.
That legislation is one piece. I’ll say this because it’s true. Every part of the food system needs more capital. It needs more funding. That’s a difficult thing to say, but as we’re looking at building more environmental sustainability and more health sustainability, we have to talk about financial sustainability and investment for some of these crucial aspects of our food system.
If I were ready to donate and/or raise money or some capital as you’re describing, who would I give it to?
You start talking to some local processors. Start talking to people that might be in need. That’s such a great question. You would start by talking to your local farmers. See where they’re processing their food, and talk to those processors. See where you might be able to help and begin that conversation.
When you say talk with the local processors, it is cool. It does sound different to me because we’re always saying, “Get to know your farmer or know your farmer.” This is a little shift.
I do want to say quickly that it can be a closed space. There isn’t a lot of trust there. With people that look to film these things or expose them and PITA, this is a community that can be a little bit more closed and a little bit less trusting. Building relationships is important in that regard.
That takes us to one of my favorite lines that is a hallmark of Kate Kavanaugh as far as I can tell is that everything is a relationship. It’s all about relationships. Can you explain to us the network or the web of the food system that confirms that trademark saying?
I like to explain this to people with the idea of minerals. It’s this idea that everything happens in relationships. We’ve already talked about it with our breath, and with the way that our food that was once other becomes us. Another way to look at this is to look at the way that minerals traverse throughout the universe. There’s this idea that all the elements that make up our earth came out of the Big Bang or out of the singularity. They were made rocks by the action of deep time here on Earth.
Contained in those rocks are the elements of magnesium, zinc, copper, and all these different pieces. Inside the soil food web, you have this beautiful collaboration of all these different entities, micro animals, and Microarthropods. You have one billion microorganisms and ten billion viruses per single teaspoon of soil.
This works as this concert to liberate these minerals from these rocks using mostly mycorrhizal fungi and the action of earthworms. Those minerals are part of the nutrients that are exchanged at the root of a plant, which is thought to be a fungal symbiont of rootless green algae. This relationship happened formed this plant early on in time. They’re exchanged at the root of the plant, then that plant has this relationship with the sun. It’s converting the energy from the sun inside of its chloroplasts.
Under Margulis’s endosymbiotic theory, it’s the engulfing of a single-celled organism of another single-celled organism, where they became something that was happening in collaboration. That’s part of what creates carbohydrates and sugars. It’s the exchanges at the plant root in relationship and in reciprocity to these minerals that then become a part of plant tissues that animals then eat, like ruminants, cattle or goats that we’ve been talking about.
That traverses through their digestive system. I think it’s 150 billion microorganisms per single teaspoon of rumen fluid. Inside that rumen, which is their four-chambered stomach, you have a symbiotic relationship with the fungi and bacteria that are there. They produce the enzyme that breaks down plant tissues.
This is happening in relationships, and then it goes and becomes a part of that animal, the phytochemicals, the meat, and the fat that we’ve been discussing. We eat that, and that other becomes a part of the self. In our cells and the cells of those ruminants, we’re making ATP inside of our mitochondria, which are like those chloroplasts. It’s this ancient relationship that happened between two single-celled organisms that decided to work together in relationship. The more that you take this lens of looking at the world, you can see this beautiful component of collaboration, how other builds self and, everything unfolding in relationship.
That’s so beautiful and so well described. It’s so magnificent. For those who come from a Christian framework like me, don’t be put off by the Big Bang thing. You can imagine that it’s the Creator setting things in motion, and designing it all to intricately dance together in a way that is of benefit. Also, a Creator that wants to be in relationship with us. It’s fascinating when you look at things also from a spiritual lens.
That’s beautiful. This is something that can fit into any belief framework and describes the relationship that we have with something greater than ourselves, whether you call that god, universe, source, or being a human woven into this Earth at this particular point in time.
Speaking of relationships, another thing I like is the way you’ve started a farm finder. I want to give you a minute to talk about that because that’s helping us improve our relationship. Some people might not even know a single farmer in their area. Talk to us about how you wanted to meet that need.
This is called Near Home. I know that there are a lot of farm finders out there. I built this in conjunction with my friend Anthony Gaston. It is all about finding a farm near your home that meets your standards. Everything on there is 100% grass-fed and grass-finished ruminants, pasture-raised pork and poultry. You can search by certifications. If you’re looking for something that’s biodynamic or American Grassfed Association certified, you can search by that. You can search for low PUFA. You might not find any near you because that hasn’t picked up as much traction. You can search by different species, and connect to a farmer because there’s a deep need for us to be in relationship with the people that grow our food. The people that grow our food need those relationships to support their business models.
That’s beautiful. You mentioned low PUFA. Let’s address that a little bit before we close. What does that term mean? How can you make sure your meat is low PUFA?
I want to say at the outset of this that I don’t think this is the single most important metric. I still eat meat that has been fed corn, soy, and sunflower at times. One of my goals is to not let us get hung up on perfection being the enemy of the good. Eating meat confers a lot of benefits, so it doesn’t have to fit this mold of perfection. I’m sure you’ve talked about this on the show, but we’ve seen the rise of polyunsaturated fatty acids. These are PUFAs, and that is our omega-6 fat or our linoleic acid.
The ratio that we had for most of human history of omega-3s, which we see more in fish and grass-fed ruminants, to omega-6s is 1 to 1 or maybe 1 to 2. Now, we’re sitting at about 1 to 16, to 1 to 23. It depends on where you look. It has a lot of health implications, especially because these make up a lot of our cell membranes. It changes the way that our cell membranes behave. It has a lot of ramifications that we won’t get into. My husband and I have been experimenting on our farm with raising low-PUFA pork and poultry.
Even pasture-raised poultry require some feed inputs because they have a single stomach like us. Those usually have corn, soy, or sunflower, which are rich in these omega-6 fatty acids, these PUFAs. We’ve been raising our pigs, chickens, ducks, and geese on a low PUFA feed that we sprout, which is going to further reduce anti-nutrients that are going to bind to minerals like zinc, and prevent them from getting that full nutrition.
Seeing what it would take, whether or not we could also do it in a way where our feed was the same price as that with corn and soy, or even a little bit less expensive. I don’t want to say innovate in the food system because these are all very old ideas. As we come to some of these things, we’re building financial sustainability for farmers and ranchers.
Thanks for clarifying that point. You’re right, it’s important not to become too fearful of the food we consume, but remember it’s all about relationships and understanding that we are very complex beings. This has been an amazing conversation. I’m so thankful. I hate to wrap it up. Kate, if the audience could do one thing to improve their health, what would you recommend that they do?
I would recommend that they find a connection with some aspect of their food system that is resonant with them. Go shake the hand of your farmer and your processor. Grow an herb in your garden, hold a handful of soil, and imagine how rich it is with life.
Find a connection with some aspect of your food system that resonates with you. Shake the hand of your farmer, of your processor, grow an herb in your garden, hold a handful of soil and imagine just how rich it is with life.
Beautiful words to end on, Kate. Thank you for your inspiration and the conversation. I loved it.
Hilda, it was such a pleasure.
Our guest was Kate Kavanaugh. Check out her websites Ground Work Collective and Western Daughters to learn more. You can check out her podcast, Mind, Body, and Soil. I’m Hilda Labrada Gore, the host and producer of the Wise Traditions Podcast for the Weston A. Price Foundation. I have resources at HolisticHilda.com. Visit our website, WestonAPrice.org, and click on the podcast page.
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About Kate Kavanaugh
Kate Kavanaugh is a farmer, butcher, nutrition therapist, and host of the Mind, Body, and Soil Podcast. She saw firsthand the power of meat to heal her own body and in seeking out farmers and ranchers raising meat with holistic practices, she found the power of meat to heal land, too. In 2013, she opened Western Daughters Butcher Shop in Denver, Colorado. Kate is now host of the Mind, Body, and Soil podcast where she is devoted to digging in deep with guests, finding the threads of what it means to be humans woven into this earth. In her spare time, Kate raises goats, pigs, cows, and poultry on a small farm in upstate New York with her husband.🖨️ Print post